INA's squad for Sudirman Cup 2009

Discussion in 'Sudirman Cup 2009' started by Sandy, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    wow,u so confident that sdk can beat pg?:eek:how is their head to head:confused:
     
  2. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Well..

    - My definition of "big boys", "bests of the bests" is LCW and LD. PG, IMO, falls in the same category as TH. However, those 3 have at least won a SS title. TH??
    Like i mentioned, TH can only win in GP or GP Gold or Open or exhibition type tourneys; or when there are less top level competitions. Sure, he beat LCW, but really, how much of a challenge did TH encounter along the way?? "Close entertaining fight" doesn't really count because there are so many "close entertaining matches" performed by other players in every tourney.

    - The "trial, error & experience" purpose is for this yr's squad. Never suggested sending 2nd or 3rd squad. What i meant is, it's time to send the youngsters out there, esp. those who've had enough international exposure. Ready or not, let's see what they've got.
    If the 1st squad, with all the veterans, can't win against China in the last 2 SC editions, then the question is what is there to gain by sending the same squad with the likelihood of them coming back home empty handed??..
    Frankly, do you even see any potential INA younger players up in the horizon, singles or doubles? Simon? Andre? Tommy? doubles players?? If the reason not to send Taufik and other veteran players is because the younger players aren't ready, haven't shown anything, don't have a chance, do you really think the younger players will have a chance to represent INA in the future, considering their outlook?

    I think it's safe to say: INA has everything to gain when they send the younger players to be exposed to higher level team competition (such as the SC, TC, UC). And vice versa, they have nothing to gain when they send the veteran players. You can also put it this way: just consider Taufik and other veteran players are no longer in Pelatnas, non-existent. Who will they rely on now?
    By sending TH and all the veterans, again, basically you're setting up a loftier goal "to win" than a realistic goal.

    IMO, the younger players (e.g. Simon, Andre, Tommy and other doubles players) have already been exposed/sent to enough tourneys; be it GP, GP Gold, SS.
    We can probably tell their potential by their results. Now, if their results are any indication, then basically you're saying TH and other proven veterans should be representing INA in team events for the next 2, 4 yrs or longer. If so, when will the younger players get a chance to play in the team events? How long will it be?? How long will they wait??
     
    #62 ctjcad, Apr 21, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  3. huangkwokhau

    huangkwokhau Regular Member

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    TH can stil win SS, Chris...before couple years ago,they said that PG wont win any tournaments...guess he did...at least TH put so much effort in training..it is much better when he was still in PBSI...I see some positive signs......If I were you, I will not say that He does not have chance........
     
  4. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ^^Off topic-Well..^^

    ..we've all been waiting for what, 2+ yrs (since first inception of Super Series tourney)??...He came close to winning it last yr in the French Open SS...
    Perhaps in the upcoming Indonesian Open SS, where LCW will be absent or maybe LD and other CHN players won't come, he'll finally win it..;)

    I'm just waiting to see...
     
    #64 ctjcad, Apr 21, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  5. phaarix

    phaarix Regular Member

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    Exactly, he hadn't been impressive at all before those tournaments. I don't really see what the big surprise was (apart from maybe losing to Tanongsak). He just played the same way he had for the last year or so and inevitably lost to, at the time, better players.

    But lately he's been making semifinals, beating top players (LCW, PG) and even occasionally winning a tournament. Can the same be said for Sony? Or Simon?? Sony hit a real good patch for a couple of SS, but plummeted to nothing almost immediately after. Based on current form, who here would put Sony or Simon ahead of Taufik?

    I really don't see where you get the idea he has this seemingly complete inability to beat "the big boys". Lin Dan is at his peak right now. So it's hard for anyone to beat him (not impossible though). Apart from him, who does Taufik have no chance against? He beat PG at this years AE. PG beat LCW right before that at the KO. Taufik has beaten LCW himself twice in a row late last year, and while getting thrashed at the AE SF, gave him a very close game in the Swiss (sorry, repeating Badadum).

    It's just plain pessimism, and sure, it's partly warranted. I had practically given up on him too before his string of good results last year (which has continued until now). I think he's shown us enough lately. He's definitely fit to take on the other top players in the world. While the odds may still be against him against say LCW or LD, he's got a much better chance than either of the other two. And clearly the situation has changed since previous TC and OG. There's little point using them as examples when based on his form going into them he didn't have a real chance anyway.

    I've said it before - Taufik is a different person on court now. He frequently smiles and looks like he's enjoying himself. Even after losing to LCW at Swiss. Before, he clearly lacked motivation and almost looked like he didn't want to be there on court.
     
    #65 phaarix, Apr 21, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  6. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ^^Back to topic-Well..^^

    ..even if they advance all the way to the Final, again, or by some miracle win it, what's the benefit of including Taufik and other veteran players in this yr's Sudirman Cup team? Anything to gain? Is it going to benefit the veteran players? Remember their results in the last 2 SC editions??..
     
  7. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Very well said and totally agree.
    The key problem with TH is motivation.Judging by his performance record in team tournaments,his motivation is questionable so he would be unreliable to deliver a crucial point (maybe because he thought if he couldn't deliver,it's not the end, teammates might be able to make up for it or failure is a shared responsibility).When that seems the case,it's better to field another MS to give them exposure for future team tournaments.
    In individual tournaments, especially with TH as an independent having to fund himself and winning glory for himself rather than PBSI, his motivation is expected to be probably at the highest in his career.So far,TH's losses has been largely due to his fitness.He has already shown he can challenge LCW and LD in his less than perfect physical condition.As Rudy suggested,TH has now been seriously working on his fitness;I wouldn't count TH out yet for a SS title.That willingness to toil physically is proof of TH's strong motivation.
    TH must be highly match fit but need not match LCW or LD in fitness to upset them.This is because as badminton's most naturally gifted player,his 'A'game requires less energy than LCW or LD.
     
  8. CLELY

    CLELY Regular Member

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    Based on BWF head-to-head statistics, SDK : PG -- 2-1 (SDK won their last duel in World Champ 2007). Not too confident lah, but I still believe SDK has good chance to overcome PG.
     
  9. phaarix

    phaarix Regular Member

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    For the sake of competition in my opinion. For the audience. So they know they've put in the best they could and have no regrets. This is a big event, and it deserves the best players.
     
  10. ye333

    ye333 Regular Member

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    I think their latest match is last year's super series final MSSF. PG won 21:10, 21:10.

     
  11. CLELY

    CLELY Regular Member

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    Yup, you're right. Forgot that invitational tournament is excluded in BWF head-2-head record.
     
  12. CLELY

    CLELY Regular Member

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    PBSI stated the minimum target for INA Sudirman team is out as finalist, similar with last two editions achievement. INA Sudirman squad will fly to Guangzhou on May 06. -- KOMPAS, 23 April 2009.
     
  13. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    And..

    ..how will "the audience" benefit the players and esp. the younger players if they continue to play the veteran players over the younger players in crucial matches/major tourneys?
    "For the sake of competition"?? Do you know the scoreline/what happened to the INA squad in the last 2 meetings vs. CHN in the Final??..
     
  14. huangkwokhau

    huangkwokhau Regular Member

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    Come on Chris...give it a break........even it is not the best players we have....lets support them...no points to have : IF" or IF NOT.....the line up is there...hope those players chosen to play their best and I am sure INA badminton will rise soon ....even though PBSI fields with veteran players but if their hearts are not there...there is no point to pick them....playing in a team and individual are totally different in my opinion....
     
  15. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ^^Eerrmm..^^

    ..i guess you didn't see my point in all this, or maybe haven't been following the posts closely:p:
    I am in full support for the new selection of younger players to compete.
    However, others prefer to see the same old, same old players perform (Taufik, Vita, Flandy etc.) because the younger players "haven't proven" anything. Using "for the audience", "for the sake of competition" as reasons.
     
  16. huangkwokhau

    huangkwokhau Regular Member

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    I know....I prefer to have mix young and old players, just like China team for regeneration.......also we have chance to be Runner Up.....
     
  17. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ^^Realistically..^^

    ..i prefer the INA squad to have a realistic chance of possibly not being the runner-ups, this time around. As long as they stay in the 1st group, that's fine (which i've mentioned before). Experience, esp. for the younger players, is what they'll gain. Of course, there will always be a mixed of veteran and younger players in nearly every team. The point i'm trying to make is, they should expose the younger players as early and as soon as possible. It's for their own good.
    Other see it, if they want to expose the younger players, let them do it through SS, GP or other individual tourneys. Not through team event. Sudirman Cup is a big event thus we **must** bring out the best players out there.
     
    #77 ctjcad, Apr 23, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  18. huangkwokhau

    huangkwokhau Regular Member

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    PBSI will send more younger players in more GP/GP Gold....then some SS...too expensive if those young players have to go thru qualifying and if they keep losing...not good for their confident...just like Vietnam Challenge...I think it is good to expose them...those young players need more matches to gain some experiences.....
     
  19. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ^^I have no problem..^^

    ..for PBSI to send the younger players everywhere they want to. I think losing is part of their maturity process.
    But to limit them in team events like (SC, TC or UC), how long will they have to wait to be able to finally perform, considering their continual struggle in individual tourneys?? When will the younger players get a chance if the veteran players are being sent & dependent on repeatedly in team events??..:confused:
    Thus, like it or not, IMO, the younger players must also be exposed to team events like the SC, TC, UC as early as possible.
     
    #79 ctjcad, Apr 23, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  20. huangkwokhau

    huangkwokhau Regular Member

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    Hopefully...we haveAsean games this year...Thomas cup next year..I think we will have new comers like Lindaweni in WS plus Shendy/Meili in Uber...some new MD in our thomas cup for sure
     

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