Is BAM going in the right direction?

Discussion in 'Malaysia Professional Players' started by cobalt, May 22, 2011.

  1. Yeung Chao

    Yeung Chao Regular Member

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    I actually forgot to mention about LZJ after commenting about Aaron/Soh's inconsistency overall. LZJ is another one who messed up his chance to medal in the Tokyo Olympics.

    Another case of losing when you are not supposed to LOSE. I will not forget that game against Chen Long. So first game it was a masterclass by LZJ then when Chen Long changed the way he played, LZJ gave away the last two games. It's acceptable to digest the outcome of the game when you are talking from equal position of strength but in this case, it is not true after what was revealed later on.

    Chen was unfit, old and slower than he was five years ago. He furthermore took like a career break. Yet LZJ despite being the better player physically and speed wise, he still bottled that game. This is very unacceptable.

    I am happy to see his name recorded among the All England winner list but one thing I really notice about Malaysians are, majority of their title winning victories are unexpected and out of the blue. The moment you "expect" them to win or achieve a certain result, they will fail.

    Malaysia badminton is equivalent to the English football. They talk a very good talk but fail to deliver when it REALLY matters.
     
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  2. Yeung Chao

    Yeung Chao Regular Member

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    I cannot say they do not deserve to win a medal in Tokyo because they had a very good run. It's not trivial achievement to beat top favourites in the tournament to be where they are.

    But what pisses me off is with their momentum and good run, they SHOULD HAVE made it to the Gold Medal Match and give the Taiwanese pair a GOOD COMPETITION. They lost to pair which I believe they should never have lost to. The moment I knew Li/Liu are facing the Taiwanese pair, instantly the game is going to be sh*t show and the gold medal was gifted to the Taiwanese.

    It is very strange/bizarre thing about Malaysian badminton. Between 2000 to 2012, Malaysian men's doubles have really good pairs that in theory could win medals in Olympic but they fail to win any medal.

    Surprisingly, players like Tan Wee Kiong/Goh V Shem and Aaron/Soh ended up scoring these valuable medals. I do not rate them so highly compared to their previous peers.
     
  3. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Had he overcome CL, the route is the same as CL, to the final and at least a silver medal. It's water under the bridge now.
     
  4. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Li/Liu were beatable that day but they let the opportunity slipped. Although it may only be the sole Olympic final, but still a good achievement.
     
  5. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Medal is luck la.

    B4 2012, those players are seeded, so opponent dun take lightly.

    After 2012, no one bother abt msia md. Complacency sets in for other teams. Luck. Then why momota lost to korea? Or lindan lost to susilo in 2004? ;)
     
  6. lurker

    lurker Regular Member

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  7. ngkt67

    ngkt67 Regular Member

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    guess who's back? back again!!
     
  8. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    the real slim mainaky!
     
  9. Yeung Chao

    Yeung Chao Regular Member

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    Rio 2016 was very unexpected. Malaysians had a very good run by entering all three gold medal finals but sadly they are still cursed not to win any gold. Still a good run.

    Tokyo 2020 on the other hand, i was sad to see Malaysia not able to send max 2 pairs in the men's double. that is the only category Malaysia had a chance of winning another silver medal if they had max two pairs but it's a shame Tan/Goh missed out.

    LZJ is unstable as expected and mixed doubles is just a hit and miss.

    I hope we have a Malaysian pairing as stable as Koo/Tan.

    Remember there's no Hendra, no annoying Korean doubles and Chinese pairs like Fu/Cai so there's no excuse why they cannot at least win a silver medal.

    Koo/Tan standard could have secured at least one Olympic medal but they were unlucky to have annoying Korean doubles and other top pairs that get the better of them sometimes.
     
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  10. indrg

    indrg Regular Member

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    so who is the head of double? Rexy Mainaky or Paulus Firman?
     
  11. sonnymak

    sonnymak Regular Member

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    Rexy will be assistant director of Performance concentrating in the Doubles department. Same job he had when he was in Indonesia 5 years ago. Think Paulus will report to him. Rexy will do well if he could concentrate on scouting potential talent and come up with programme to change the mind set and tactics of Malaysian doubles from a young age.

    Both Paulus and Flandi are soft calm character and able to calm nerves when chips are down. Rexy however is a dynamic character that some time could galvanise players to play above themselves but could also back fire. Rexy like a little of panache in his game and can see from the development of Khoo and Tan . Fairuzizuan and Latiff. alsos he had a hand in development of Kevin in the early stage before his break out. Of course his development of Thailands doubles players have seen good results.

    More important is the development of the minds and tactics. Indonesian style doubles seems to suit younger Malaysian more but traditionally we ve been either defensive or attack oriented or both. Not as varied as the Indonesians.

    Ironically Park Joo Bong seems to prefer Malaysians in the doubles Department . Starting with Tam Kim Her whorecommended to coach Koreans ( Lee Yong Dae Jung jae Sung Lee Kwang Jin when they were coming out of junior ranks) and then to Japan . Also Jeremy Gan . (both PJB assistant and player under PJB). Jeremy did well with coaching the XD and WD in Malaysia and doing a fine job in Japan today. Tan Kim Her mixed results in Msia but doing better overseas.
     
  12. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Jeremy Gan also had a major part in juniors performing well at world junior championships
     
  13. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Yup, MAS could have won 3 golds if XD won it or MD. With the duck broken, there will be less pressure on the subsequent finals.

    Koo/Tan at 2008 was still inexperience and at 2012, they were already downhill, with their individual lifestyles.
     
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  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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  15. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    The closest is still 2016 rio md finals. Deuce. What a service mess. Lol ;)

    Very similar to csk.ykh and ctf.lww lost in crucial big tournaments. Mental meltdown. Lol ;)

    Btw, its difficult to change msian players culture. Different from indonesians. I played with hariyanto arbi buddies before. ;)
     
  16. Yeung Chao

    Yeung Chao Regular Member

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    I am very sure the governing body of Indonesia is very similar to Malaysia. Got its own problems and bureaucratic.

    The main difference is between the Indonesian and Malaysian players is one thing : their attitude. In the past, I would agree that Malaysian players can never be compared with the Indons because the latter are faster, fitter and somehow they have the right technique to execute the right shots. In modern era, it's no longer an excuse. There's no such thing as Indonesian secret shots or smashes. Everything can be studied, analysed and reproduced thanks to technology and sports science. Indonesian players are not special anymore. Any random player with the right training and preparation can beat them.

    In the past, I would think Taufik is an impossible player to beat. Once we enter the modern era of technology, Taufik is just another player that can be beaten by any random top 50 player.

    Now what separates Indonesians from Malaysians is their hunger for success. They train and compete patiently until they no longer have the ability and stamina anymore to compete. I would say the most patient award should go to Hendra Setiawan. That guy is literally the silent collector of trophies. Sure he may not be consistent with a lot of rollercoaster rides but he carries on competing and training until he wins. And his most recent victory is finally getting hands of the Thomas Cup. Of course other indonesians like Lilyana and Greysiaa are also comparable in terms of patience.

    But what about Malaysian players? Put aside BAM mismanagement and short-sighted goals, the players themselves are culturally different in terms of their thinking to Indonesians. Perhaps owing the bad state of Malaysian education system or even society, Malaysian players simply fail to see the bigger the picture and do not have the patience to succeed. Once fallen, most of them cannot bounce back from failure and automatically career over. This is really the case for most Malaysian players. Liew Daren's career is more or less over when he flopped in the Thomas Cup and the same goes to Chong Wei Feng when he got a master class beating by Momota. These are potential players that could go far in terms of their skills but they do not have the right attitude to bounce back and recover. Another infamous story is Kuan Beng Hong. That one is a serious flop story. Totally unprepared to prove his worth and one crucial defeat completely led to self-destruction.

    Lee Chong Wei is an exception with his biggest flaw in his career is being too arrogant and overconfident with himself and allowing his rivals/enemies to analyse him like an open book. What is the point of going all out winning all these series titles and beating your opponents hands down only to fail at the crucial big tournaments ? It's sign of failure to see the bigger picture.

    Until the national team has a new set of badminton players who are critical thinkers, hard working and of course very talented, Malaysia will be seen as country that fails to win big tournaments which is a sad revelation when Malaysia is already falling behind in many aspects of the world due to reasons which we all rather not discuss.
     
  17. sonnymak

    sonnymak Regular Member

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    You are right in many scores. Critical thinkers in the game safe for Koo Kien Keat and LCW the rest cant think for themselves or analyse how they play plus relied on their coaches a lot.

    In fact if you are a player on a professional level you should have questions for your coaches. Waht is my weaknesses. How can I improve? I was hitting the wall leading 18-15 and I felt a sudden weight in my shoulders, How can I over come that? What is my opponent's weaknesses? The question to these answers must also come from the players own self reflections outside the court and training and do their own research.

    Yes it is a question of education and comes from a particular type of vernacular education. Culture and hunger for success.....definitely yes compared to the Indonesians.

    As for whether we were ever ahead in Badminton....mmmmm not since 1956. We were stubbornly following the same style of play and same type of training from 1957 to 1985 whilst the world was passing us by. Only after 1985 and with foreign coaches did we improve with new type of players but we were always behind the bigger powers. We are like Uruguay in soccer living on past glories and once in a decade manage to keep ourselves in top flight but never able to do it consistenty.

    P.S. "when Malaysia is already falling behind in many aspects of the world due to reasons which we all rather not discuss" . This is a bit conceited. We were never ahead in many aspect in the world , we think we were ahead but we were never ahead . We have always had to catch up. But that is a discussion in another forum.
     
  18. Yeung Chao

    Yeung Chao Regular Member

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    Yes it is a question of education and comes from a particular type of vernacular education. Culture and hunger for success.....definitely yes compared to the Indonesians.

    Wow you are going in. Not holding back any punches. hahahahahahahaha
     
  19. Yeung Chao

    Yeung Chao Regular Member

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    I am trying very hard not to open a BIG can of worms but it's worth discussing.

    One said the education has something to do with it and especially from a particular stream, I would agree to SOME EXTENT but it is not the main factor. It did contribute significantly to the general problem faced in Malaysia across all sports. In Japan or Korea, people who commit themselves to sports are taught or groomed think not about themselves and always about the interest of the nation/team/institute and higher goal. It has its pros but the cons are there as well. You prevent certain individuals from trying to be different in order to achieve things differently.

    Whereas in Malaysia, I do agree to some extent a certain curriculum has indeed created a generation of people who are individualistic, not thinking critically and dogmatic. Consequently these mindset are incorporated into the sports.
    Sometimes I wonder during the badminton national training if the badminton athletes actually work together as a team to improve themselves or achieve greater heights. On the surface it appears that way but I have my doubts.

    That's the education factor but the biggest factor is the historical aspect of being Malaysian especially the ones that were of immigration descent. When growing up, majority of the kids are basically taught never to think about exploring any opportunities that are not mainstream. Follow the simple rule of work hard, earn money and survive, no questions asked. That thinking is very much alive today in large percentage of the community as a result, the athletes you get end up not being critical thinkers and only care about achieving the short term results in order to gain financial advantage. Of course there are exceptions but these are usually minorities from upper middle class families that will not consider wasting their time on a sport like badminton. To them, there are better things to do.

    So it takes a big gut/ballsy move from someone in BAM to recognise this political, social , cultural factors embedded in the characters of the badminton batches and they need to think of a way to change that mindset or overhaul the youth development programme.

    Or else no matter how many times you replace coaches, you may improve their stamina or skillset, but never they will have the character of a true champion. That sums up Malaysia sports in general hence Malaysia will never win a single Olympic Gold medal at this rate.

    One of the greatest wisdom (I know this sounds crazy) derived from one Chinese drama is from Wudang master Zhang Sanfeng when he was trying to teach Tai Chi swordplay to the protagonist. The protagonist forgot all the moves but the main objective of the lesson was for him to understand essence/spirit of the swordplay.

    So on the same note, having character/spirit of a champion is very important apart from the strokes.
     
    #2939 Yeung Chao, Nov 16, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
  20. ngkt67

    ngkt67 Regular Member

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    after Cheam June Wei left BAM and Lee Zii Jia is currently struggling his recent injury, now BAM would have to rely on Ng Tze Yong, Leong Jun Hao, Aidil Sholeh and Lim Chong King to strengthen the MS department...
     

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