KKK/TBH will get two SS titles in Europe.

[naistav]

Right, thanks for your note based on some facts. But I suspect you're missing something about my prediction; please read my other messages here.

Stats is Stats; it can't tell 100% as you know well. MK/HS can beat another top team even with just 1% of winning percentage.

But Stats is useful because at least it says about "consistency."

Enjoy~

Ok..
If we didn't have adequate variables to predict based on H2H stats, I think achievement and world rank large differences could be used to predict.
I didn't say stats is not useful ya, but I'm sure we don't have stats between Jap pairs and MK/HS to use as prediction base.
MK/HS also have good consistency especially against much lower rank. No need to calculate stats, their rank and achievement is enough.
That's all. I am not against you on other prediction so I will only focus on this one. Like I said before, the rest is ok for me.

 

[narnia]

Ok..
If we didn't have adequate variables to predict based on H2H stats, I think achievement and world rank large differences could be used to predict.
I didn't say stats is not useful ya, but I'm sure we don't have stats between Jap pairs and MK/HS to use as prediction base.
MK/HS also have good consistency especially against much lower rank. No need to calculate stats, their rank and achievement is enough.
That's all. I am not against you on other prediction so I will only focus on this one. Like I said before, the rest is ok for me.

Right, I admit the case was quite outrageous, but it happens occasionally and the JPN team having been trained by PJB has shown tremendous performance recently. In fact, I did not have info about Kido's knee recovery and I saw the INA team lost to Boe/Mogensen in two straight games, which is unusual as many know, that made me guess Kido was not good yet. However, it was wrong, Kido totally "Revived" as I wrote before.

Anyway Koo/Tan showed very good performance in these two consecutive SS in Europe.

Enjoy~

p.s. if you cannot find any direct link between the variables, in stats, you can set up some mediators between them, maybe you know it. That's the logic, which fails to give, sometimes, good fit in sports games as you know.

I'm not a statistician. Actually I'm emphasizing more on the recent performance or play quality they are showing.

 

[whack_d_net]

Wow, great discussion
A lil' OOT
@naistav:
You should using JPN, Japanese or Nippon instead of Jap
(Hehehe i learned through my own experience) LOL

 

[limsy]

u cant believe 100% on statistic
video is the best material for u to do the prediction

 

[narnia]

u cant believe 100% on statistic
video is the best material for u to do the prediction

That's right. So, I have watched most of the videos esp. for the top players. Actually I analyze a single video repeatedly in slow motion. It also really helped improve my playing skills.



p.s. have you watched LCW's slow motion on Youtube? That's my work.

 

[limsy]

That's right. So, I have watched most of the videos esp. for the top players. Actually I analyze a single video repeatedly in slow motion. It also really helped improve my playing skills.



p.s. have you watched LCW's slow motion on Youtube? That's my work.

not only top player
u need to pay attention on those potential dark horse also

nope i didnt
i play badminton,i dont TRAIN badminton like george
what why i just can improve abit after some time

 

[badadum]

Yeah, right in part. But the teams in this Tourney were not the same as you saw in the international games, they played representing their own home towns. LYD/Cho GW is a quite old partnership from their elementary school days, i.e., in the same home town, up to now in Samsung Squad. They deserve the title as the World Junior Champ.

Please...besides LYD/JJS...who else does the korean have since LJJ has retired? You can make up excuses about the pair is not the normal pairing, but stats (your favorite subject) will also shown that:
1) Only 1 KOR pair in the top 10 (other badminton powerhouse has 2, closest KOR pair is ranked 17th.
2) Only one other KOR pair besides LYD/JJS ever reach the final of any GP event this year....and that tourney is being played in the Korean home court, with their famously blatant liars being seated as line judges.

 

[naistav]

Wow, great discussion
A lil' OOT
@naistav:
You should using JPN, Japanese or Nippon instead of Jap
(Hehehe i learned through my own experience) LOL

Oops.. my mistake.
Thanks whach_d_net

 

[ctjcad]

What did i tell y'all was gonna happen..

..should Kido & Setiawan win vs. KKK & TBH, that narnia's thread will be flooded...and BAM!..

...
The rest of your prediction is ok.

..with his predictions based simply from tournamentsoftware.com stats graph machine, there's no wonder why narnia is probably now scratching his head, smiling a bit & his face probably turning a bit pink..(thank goodness we're all typing and being unanimous behind the computer screen/keyboard), eh??..
Btw, his predictions went haywire...starting in the 1st round..

...In fact, I did not have info about Kido's knee recovery and I saw the INA team lost to Boe/Mogensen in two straight games, which is unusual as many know, that made me guess Kido was not good yet.
...

..This yr, i believe they're 1-2 vs. top European pairs. And they did lose to Boe & Mogensen in last yr's Copenhagen Masters.
So, it's not really unusual they've struggled against top European pairs, esp. counting their past encounters in European tourneys.
As for Kido & Setiawan's head to head record vs. KKK & TBH, i believe it is basically even steven. IMO, last night's encounter could've gone either way.

For this French Open, actually my prediction was correct in two major things;

1. KKK/TBH advanced to the Final to get a chance of winning the title.

2. Taufik advanced to the Final as I predicted.

Enjoy~

..hmm, where did you predict Taufik would advance to the Final?? mind showing us your post?..
All i recall is, based on your 1st post in this thread, you predicted KKK & TBH to romp all the way to their 2nd European SS title and Kido & Setiawan to disappear into Paris' tempting night life after the 1st round..

 

[naistav]

p.s. if you cannot find any direct link between the variables, in stats, you can set up some mediators between them, maybe you know it. That's the logic, which fails to give, sometimes, good fit in sports games as you know.

I'm not a statistician. Actually I'm emphasizing more on the recent performance or play quality they are showing.

I think MB/CM is a good pair. Lose twice to KKK/TBH in three-setter game doesn't make you a bad pair. MK/HS were oftenly find it difficult to defeat DEN's pair or even other European' MD like NR/AC. And MB/CM also 3rd seeded, I could say that MB/CM is one of callenger to current top MD.
MK/HS were not too bad when MB/CM beat them in Denmark. Reach SF in Denmark and lose to a good pair, is not a valid reason to judge recent performance or play quality is bad enough to make them predicted to be defeated by much lower rank JPN MD.

I don't know about mediators in statistic, maybe simonlovers could help on this one? Perhaps recent performance, play quality? But that doesn't lead us to predict MK/HS to lose to much lower rank in FO at first round at all . But hey, do you have statistic of MK/HS losing to much lower rank? They're not yoyo kind of like HH, or even TH.
To all, I'm not to heat the discussion, prediction may sometime wrong. But I think it's much better if we could enforce a valid ground of prediction.

 

[badadum]

I consider the MK/HS, CY/FHF, LYD/JJS and KKK/TBH as the top MD pair in the world. MB/CM is about half a step behind them, but make no mistake, the danes are very good pair.

Can't recall the last time when MK/HS lost to a much lower pair....they lost to the TPE pair in KO 2009, but at that time Kido was practically playing while hobbled by injury.... The same injury that caused him to get pummelled by KKK/TBH in HO 2008 and probably still affecting him in Copenhage master 08.

Other than injury, MK/HS doesn't have a history of getting surprised/beat by lower pair. The only other time that I can recall is their 1st round exist in AE 2008, but the JPN pair that beat at them is in the top 10 or very close to it as well.....
Probably have to go back to sometime in 2007 to see if that did happened in the past.

 

[badMania]

Allow me to show the records of Kido/Hendra's losses since 2005

2005 (24-10 and 3 Titles, including the SEA Games Team & Individual Event) -- first full year of competition at top-level.
vs Flandy Limpele/Eng Hian -- 2x
vs Nathan Robertson/Robert Blair -- 1x
vs Jens Eriksen/Martin Lundgaard Hansen -- 1x
vs Tony Gunawan/Howard Bach -- 1x
vs Lars Paaske/Jonas Rasmussen -- 1x
vs Choong Tan Fook/Lee Wan Wah -- 1x
vs Sang Yang/Xie Zhongbo -- 1x
vs Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun -- 1x
vs Thomas Laybourn/Peter Steffensen -- 1x

2006 (37-8 and 3 Titles, including Asian Games Team & Individual Event)
vs Anthony Clark/Robert Blair -- 2x
vs Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun -- 2x (beat them twice too)
vs Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong -- 1x
vs Tony Gunawan/Candra Wijaya -- 1x
vs Choong Tan Fook/Lee Wan Wah -- 1x
vs Hendri Kurniawan Saputra/Hendra Wijaya -- 1x

2007 (53-10 and 6 Titles, including SEA Games Team & Individual Events)
vs Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong -- 4x
vs Choong Tan Fook/Lee Wan Wah -- 2x (beat them 1x)
vs Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun -- 1x (beat them 1x)
vs Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae -- 1x (beat them 1x)
vs Han Sang Hoon/Yoo Yeon Seong -- 1x
vs Luluk Hadiyanto/Alvent Yulianto -- 1x

2008 (37-9 and 5 Titles, excludes the Invitational Copenhagen Masters as it's only an exhibition tourney that does not mean anything)
vs Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae -- 3x
vs Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong -- 2x
vs Rian Sukmawan/Yonathan Suryatama Dasuki -- 1x
vs Tony Gunawan/Candra Wijaya -- 1x
vs Lars Paaske/Jonas Rasmussen -- 1x
vs Tadashi Ohtsuka/Keita Masuda -- 1x

2009 (29-5 and 3 Titles so far)
vs Hendra A. Gunawan/Alvent Yulianto Chandra -- 1x
vs Fang Chieh-Min/Lee Sheng-Mu -- 1x
vs Nathan Robertson/Anthony Clark -- 1x
vs Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae -- 1x
vs Mathias Boe/Carsten Mogensen -- 1x

 

[badadum]

Allow me to show the records of Kido/Hendra's losses since 2005

2005 (24-10 and 3 Titles, including the SEA Games Team & Individual Event) -- first full year of competition at top-level.
vs Flandy Limpele/Eng Hian -- 2x
vs Nathan Robertson/Robert Blair -- 1x
vs Jens Eriksen/Martin Lundgaard Hansen -- 1x
vs Tony Gunawan/Howard Bach -- 1x
vs Lars Paaske/Jonas Rasmussen -- 1x
vs Choong Tan Fook/Lee Wan Wah -- 1x
vs Sang Yang/Xie Zhongbo -- 1x
vs Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun -- 1x
vs Thomas Laybourn/Peter Steffensen -- 1x

2006 (37-8 and 3 Titles, including Asian Games Team & Individual Event)
vs Anthony Clark/Robert Blair -- 2x
vs Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun -- 2x (beat them twice too)
vs Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong -- 1x
vs Tony Gunawan/Candra Wijaya -- 1x
vs Choong Tan Fook/Lee Wan Wah -- 1x
vs Hendri Kurniawan Saputra/Hendra Wijaya -- 1x

2007 (53-10 and 6 Titles, including SEA Games Team & Individual Events)
vs Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong -- 4x
vs Choong Tan Fook/Lee Wan Wah -- 2x (beat them 1x)
vs Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun -- 1x (beat them 1x)
vs Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae -- 1x (beat them 1x)
vs Han Sang Hoon/Yoo Yeon Seong -- 1x
vs Luluk Hadiyanto/Alvent Yulianto -- 1x

2008 (37-9 and 5 Titles, excludes the Invitational Copenhagen Masters as it's only an exhibition tourney that does not mean anything)
vs Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae -- 3x
vs Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong -- 2x
vs Rian Sukmawan/Yonathan Suryatama Dasuki -- 1x
vs Tony Gunawan/Candra Wijaya -- 1x
vs Lars Paaske/Jonas Rasmussen -- 1x
vs Tadashi Ohtsuka/Keita Masuda -- 1x

2009 (29-5 and 3 Titles so far)
vs Hendra A. Gunawan/Alvent Yulianto Chandra -- 1x
vs Fang Chieh-Min/Lee Sheng-Mu -- 1x
vs Nathan Robertson/Anthony Clark -- 1x
vs Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae -- 1x
vs Mathias Boe/Carsten Mogensen -- 1x

<speechless>
I don't know which one is more of an advantage...badmania having MK/HS as his most favorite pair...or MK/HS having such dedicated fan as badmania.

 

[badMania]

I should note that Kido/Hendra beat Paaske/Rasmussen, Koo/Tan, and Tony/Candra twice for each pair last year, so, no inferior records to these pairs for last year.

The ONLY pairs Kido/Hendra have overall inferior records to at the moment are only Koo/Tan (3-7) and Jung/Lee (3-5) since 2006 to present moment. Maybe perhaps to Choong/Lee too...but I am lazy to see what's the overall record for the past 4 years.

Anyway, it's not that important as Choong/Lee NEVER WIN any Major Title Let them have the superior head-to-head record over the reigning Olympics Champions...that's something to brag about too eh

 

[badadum]

I should note that Kido/Hendra beat Paaske/Rasmussen, Koo/Tan, and Tony/Candra twice for each pair last year, so, no inferior records to these pairs for last year.

The ONLY pairs Kido/Hendra have overall inferior records to at the moment are only Koo/Tan (3-7) and Jung/Lee (3-5) since 2006 to present moment. Maybe perhaps to Choong/Lee too...but I am lazy to see what's the overall record for the past 4 years.

Anyway, it's not that important as Choong/Lee NEVER WIN any Major Title Let them have the superior head-to-head record over the reigning Olympics Champions...that's something to brag about too eh

Don't start man...just don't.....

Seemed like MK/HS matches quite well with CY/FHF....do you happen to have their overall H-2-H record since 2006 as well?

 

[badMania]

Don't start man...just don't.....

Seemed like MK/HS matches quite well with CY/FHF....do you happen to have their overall H-2-H record since 2006 as well?

I know for sure that Fu/Cai DID NOT HAVE a superior record to Kido/Hendra since 2005. The record stands at 4-4. Even-steven as you expected.

 

[Jagdpanther]

Psst... He's online. Let's hear what he's gonna say.

 

[narnia]

I should note that Kido/Hendra beat Paaske/Rasmussen, Koo/Tan, and Tony/Candra twice for each pair last year, so, no inferior records to these pairs for last year.

The ONLY pairs Kido/Hendra have overall inferior records to at the moment are only Koo/Tan (3-7) and Jung/Lee (3-5) since 2006 to present moment. Maybe perhaps to Choong/Lee too...but I am lazy to see what's the overall record for the past 4 years.

Anyway, it's not that important as Choong/Lee NEVER WIN any Major Title Let them have the superior head-to-head record over the reigning Olympics Champions...that's something to brag about too eh

Thanks for the stats. But you need to make a matrix to see the whole thing.

The badminton world has been fast changing in the recent years. The BWF official ranking only counts 1 year moving average and my H2H of Top Players counts 2 years moving average.

To see who's the strongest in MD "currently", you should set the time frame in reasonable scale. To know that, at least I have no interest to go back to the "history."

Enjoy~

 

[badMania]

To see who's the strongest in MD "currently", you should set the time frame in reasonable scale. To know that, at least I have no interest to go back to the "history."

Enjoy~

That's your own problem anyway. We are not particularly interested in the meaningless head-to-head stats anyway

Enjoy too ~

 

[taufik-ist]

Narnia.. How do you do ?