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Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by seawell, Oct 29, 2004.
Nope, if they're truly serious about peaking at the right time.
I agree they won't be at their absolute best, but they will be in earnest to win anyway.
I agree. Otoh, in that case you might as well say the 2011 WC and 2012 OG are inconclusive since they were so close, yet some ppl here might argue that they're super important matches that LD won because he was so much better and so on.
What gave LCW the win in this match was that he made less mistakes than LD. Before anyone answers how LCW couldnt win without errors from LD - he made many mistakes as well, which enabled LD to build his sizeable leads in the first place.
The match couldve gone either way, but personally I would say that indeed the better player won. He was the one to go for opportunities and who dared to attack, whereas LD tried to counter and rarely seized the initiative.
In conclusion - yes, LCW wasnt better by a lot in the SF. Still, he showed why he -at the present- has more potential than LD, attacking and creating openings in a way that LD is no more capable of.
While I like watching LD play, I take less and less enjoyment in it since 2012. He showed glimpses of promise in the SF (attacking from his BH side again instead of turning for the backhand, higher pace and better defense than in other recent matches), let's see what he can do in the next 9 months...and if he makes it to Rio.
Pls write short msgs.. Lomg msgs loses interest and generally avoided.. make is short & sweet.. In a nutshell.. Be Specific
DishuThomas, no doubt a win is a win no matter by how many points, nobody is disputing that. Superficially, yes, but for the players themselves and their coaches, they look beyond the surface and want to analyze how the match is played and won at various stages of the game and draw lessons and make adjustments to the training and preparation, esp when the victory is a narrow one which could've gone either way.
j4ckie, yes, I get your but how often did Lin Dan win those tight matches and crucial points vis-a-vis Lee CW as their H2H shows. For this match, even LCW admitted he sensed Lin Dan slowing down (due to fitness issue which seldom happened in the past) whilst he could maintain his pace. I mean when the match is so close - Lin Dan won the 1st set, lost G2 by 21-19 from 19-all, and lost G3 similarly 21-19 again from 19-all - that coupled with Lin Dan's lack of fitness would certainly give LCW and his coaches some food for thought.
Well, if LCW can win such tight matches more often, and that against a fitter Lin Dan, then I'd say it's more conclusive who has become the better player. I say this not to take anything away from LCW's win, only to express a perspective. Lest both of you misunderstood me, I've often said all three of them are in the same league, of the same level, more or less, at the moment.
Just like when Chen Long recently beat Viktor Axelsen in tight matches at the AUS Open, the Jakarta WC particularly, and at the DEN Open PSS, many are of the view that VA can seriously challenge and might one day beat Chen Long who himself thought that VA is of the same standard as him. But at the CHN Open semifinal, Chen Long convincingly beating VA 21-17 and 21-13, two straight sets, to increase his H2H to 7-0, in a way put doubts in our minds that VA is at the same level as Chen Long. No wonder Steen Pedersen disagreed with Chen Long's assessment while commentating at the DEN Open.
That's the point I'm trying to make, you need more convincing results to prove who is now the better player.
As we know, Lin Dan's forte is his attack, explosive when he was younger. Now that he's metamorphosed into a less offensive, more rallying type of player, is to me an indication that he is not at his best or past his prime. To make matters worse, of late, his fitness is suspect, apart from lack of motivation.
To raise his game, the first thing he has to do is to work on his fitness, not difficult at all, esp now that he's just been handed a wake-up call by LCW. Like I said, the two players he hate to lose to are LCW and Chen Long, the rest he believes he can handle despite a couple of humiliating defeats.
But, better still, I'd much love to see him resorting to a more ferocious attacking game when needed. Who knows he might just spring such a surprise on his difficult opponents when they least expected it. But, I emphasize, the precondition is the requisite level of fitness.
Maybe he is training a little more since the World Championship loss. Then again, maybe not. His loss to Viktor Axelsen was embarassing - I can't recall Lin Dan getting single digits in points in two straight sets after the 2008 Olympics. Actually, I'm not even sure when Lin Dan last got beat 2 sets in a row where he got single digits in points.
In the tournaments since the World Championship, it seems like Lin Dan's consistency has improved and he is not getting knocked out of the first round as often. That may be a sign he is training a little harder.
Unfortunately, he is not in his best possible condition. To those who really think LCW improved because he beat LD, I'm sorry, you are misguided. It's just that LD is not playing as well as he was pre Asia games when we beat Chen Long in the Asia game finals - probably because he isn't training very hard.
In a very cynical way, I think LD knows he can get away with being lazy because LYB can't find LD's replacement up to the Olympic Games. None of the other Chinese players are good enough to cover for Chen Long if Chen Long loses. LD is Chen Long's insurance policy if Chen Long implodes. As you can see in the China Open, Chen Long is not dependable for the Olympics. It's better to go into the Olympics with two players that can win it, rather than one. That's why LD is able to get away with training less and that's why LD is also able to get away with his Yonex sponsorship (it's obvious there was a political fight between LD and LYB + Li Ning when LD made the move for Yonex sponsorship).
My summary for the present 3 heavenly Kings to succeed :
- LD has to be more explosive and urgent in his game, key is to improve fitness level
- LCW to be more relax and patient in his game and ride on his masterful shot making
- CL is already there as King of the mountain, not much room for improvement
Conclusion : LD and LCW can overcome CL if they want to at the Olympics.
Frankly I dont see any dark horses around to beat these 3 Kings in the next Oympics.
Had a good laugh watching this video
LD struggled to beat a 20 year old badminton player a clear sign that the lion is ageing. If still the writing is not clear for LD fans then lets hope for some miracle.
Generally, I agree with you,esp the last two paragraphs. The 3rd paragraph is what most LCW fans find hard to swallow.
Writing is clear on the wall for LD.. Perform or Perish..
What about LCW losing to a certain 20-yr-old KOR Heo Kwang Hee in the JPN Open qualification round, 10-21,12-21 ?
If LCW can shrug off that worst and most humiliating defeat of his career and come back unscathed, what makes you think Lin Dan cannot ?
Some 20-yr-olds are very promising, Mustofa is one of them. When Lin Dan was at this age, he was already a world-beater.
LCW's defeat in a qualifying round doesn't count.Don't you know the double standard of LCW fans???????
We are having this discussion not based on the past laurels of LD but based on the current performance and about his form/fitness which is way off mark. We can talk endlessly about LD's past achievements but those things are not going to make him win future SS tournaments.
We are living in the present and concerned about the future (LD) and we are not interested in the past postmortem (LCWs past defeat) Only a miracle can result in another super series victory for LD leave alone standing anywhere closer to the medals podium in the Rio Olympics. WRITING IS ON THE WALL
LOL cant wait to bump this post soon.
It will be sweet when haters cry.
Not only do they apply double standards, the logics they use are warped too. If loosing in a close 3-setter, that too mainly through his own mistakes, renders LD no where near the winners' podium in Rio then how near can LCW get to the podium? Had he said no way near the top of the podium I wouldn't have aggreed too but I won't rebut.
One thing untill few weeks ago or untill China Open SF,i didn't realise that with every tournament Lin Dan won,he made more haters than fans............Earlier,i was thinking something else...........Probably,due to the fact that haters could not release their relentless frustration because of Lin Dan's regular success untill 2015 arrived or more so untill LCW secured his first win in 4 years........
Your theory doesnt really hold water since LD had nothing resembling regular success in 2013 or 2014. Out of curiosity, when did you become a LCW hater? Was it when he beat LD in the 2011 All England? When he won twice as many SS titles?
Just btw, I'm not against LD in any way. I just find blindly devoted fans who try to put others down annoying.
Lin Dan-2013 World Champion and 2014- Asian Games Gold........is that not a success to you????