Lin Dan ( 林丹 )
- Thread starter seawell
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j4ckie
Regular Member
So just like I thought, half the records are worthless (team events are not individual achievements). Thanks for confirming. Still impressive otherwise, sure, but I think his actual achievements are way more impressive than some weird cobbled-together world records (only winner of multi-year and team events? Come on)...
Regarding your excuses for his drop in WR - no one cares. It doesn't matter if he 'took his foot off the pedal' or not, aside from that being unprovable speculation. No one cares if he's busy with extracurricular activities. When you look at people's careers and achievements, you look at the facts, not speculations. "If LCW hadn't gotten sick/cramps at the 2010/2013 WC, he would've won easily" - well, maybe, but all we count are facts, so he's still at 0 WC Golds...
Rob3rt
Regular Member
- the only MS to win 2 Olympic Gold medals
- the only MS to win Olympics at home and away
- the only MS to win 2 Olympic Gold medals on two different continents
- the only MS to defend his Olympic Gold
- the only reigning Olympic champion to defend his title
but wait... there's more.
- the only MS to win Olympics at home and away
- the only MS to win 2 Olympic Gold medals on two different continents
- the only MS to defend his Olympic Gold
- the only reigning Olympic champion to defend his title
but wait... there's more.
Interestingly, I have seen some of LCW's MD exhibitions and XD tournament play and did not have that impression. It seemed to me like he could hang with the big guys in terms of attacking from the back/mid-court, but would be exploited in the net area and defensively. He could probably have gotten to a passable level in XD, where the overall pace and nature of the rallies are different, but I wouldn't be too sure if he could've gotten to the same level as in MS. He also has some very specific skills that don't transfer at all, like his incredible half-diving defense.
I don't think there's any such judgement possible (I.e. player X would've been better in discipline Y), it's more or less an eye test only, which as I said can be very misleading (for example, Chen Long really doesn't look all that spectacular compared to players like LCW, LD, Axelsen, Kidbi).
Anyway, to each their own. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, I just have a different impression and I think both are equally unprovable
Yeah, obviously this is a subjective topic so as you rightly say, no one can claim to be right. But having watched a lot of LCW’s MD and XD matches in the past, he does in my opinion display qualities that would make him a fantastic doubles player. Yes I concede that he wouldn’t hit the ground running having specialised in MS for so many years, but with the right training and coaching I am certain that he would excel in doubles (with a decent partner).
Clearly there would need to be a period of adjustment, just as we would when we adjust to playing with a new racquet, a new partner, new environment, let alone someone who has hardly played any doubles in his entire career. So I would not compare his performance in these rare “one-off” matches (despite being quite impressive) against the performance of top XD/MD but rather see the potential in these performances for him to refine and improve significantly to reach the level of top XD/MD players once he has had the opportunity to adapt.
Yes I agree there are certain skills he possesses that are not transferable to XD/MD, but there are also ones that are, however the pertinent point is that he is not starting from scratch, he would have an incredible base set of skills to start from. Take his defence for example. Yes, those dives are not really that useful in doubles, and he would not be able to defend by blocking back to the net so much and he would need to bolster his defence to the body. But I don’t see these as big issues to overcome with the right training, certainly not something insurmountable for LCW. Looking at the skills that are transferable, such as his incredibly accurate smash. Imagine being able to hit hard smashes in MD inches from the side lines, time after time. Or that incredible speed around the court. Not to mention his ninja-like reactions.
Of course this is all hypothetical and opinion based, but I am convinced he would be brilliant XD/MD player with the right partner, though I do respect your opinion to disagree.
j4ckie
Regular Member
You list those useless distinctions of location as if they have any meaning, just like you list team events like they're individual achievements. They're not. They can't possibly be considered when looking at individual achievements. In fact there's players with 100% winning records who didn't win a single team match (in one tournament) and others who have lousy records who still got pulled through by their team. Team event placings don't matter in terms of individual achievement, simple as that. It's not LCWs fault that the Malaysian team was always second rate at best, and it's not LD's achievement that China's was excellent. They're both only responsible for their own performance.
https://sports.qq.com/a/20190618/001811.htm
“前一场打（印尼选手）金廷，林丹就感冒发烧，打完比赛之后浑身疼，他是带着病打第二天半决赛的，否则跟伍家朗打不会输得那么难看。”这位人士揭露了个中缘由，“其实当时都劝他要不就放弃吧，但他坚持参赛，觉得应该全力以赴，珍惜每一场比赛的机会。”
"It turned out that at the New Zealand Open'19 semifinals, Lin Dan caught a cold and was running a fever and aching all over after his match with Ginting the day before he played Ng Kah Long, which explained his pathetic defeat", as revealed by someone to the reporter. " Actually, Lin Dan was advised to concede a walkover to Ng Kah Long, but he insisted on playing and giving his best saying he cherished the chance to play every single match." (presumably to gain OG QF points)
“前一场打（印尼选手）金廷，林丹就感冒发烧，打完比赛之后浑身疼，他是带着病打第二天半决赛的，否则跟伍家朗打不会输得那么难看。”这位人士揭露了个中缘由，“其实当时都劝他要不就放弃吧，但他坚持参赛，觉得应该全力以赴，珍惜每一场比赛的机会。”
"It turned out that at the New Zealand Open'19 semifinals, Lin Dan caught a cold and was running a fever and aching all over after his match with Ginting the day before he played Ng Kah Long, which explained his pathetic defeat", as revealed by someone to the reporter. " Actually, Lin Dan was advised to concede a walkover to Ng Kah Long, but he insisted on playing and giving his best saying he cherished the chance to play every single match." (presumably to gain OG QF points)
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Wait, this report was supposedly refer to New Zealand Open 2019. LD lost to JC in Australia Open 2019.
My bad, corrected. Thanks.
yuquall
Regular Member
I don't get what you have been trying to say
.He definitely said that LD was probably or most definitely the best MS player of all time despite rooting for LCW all the time (and lost to LD in most major finals).
Rob3rt
Regular Member
Not all of them, but the redundant, duplicate records and stuff that no-one cares about which can be told about almost all players.
j4ckie
Regular Member
Exactly. The record OG and WC Golds are definitely milestones, incredible achievements. So are his many AE titles and impeccable TC/SC statistics - it's just the team placings and weird specific records ("most matches won while wearing only one sock, in a foreign continent, having drunk 0,33l beer the day before"....who gives a damn) that aren't real individual achievements.
His overall number of titles is impressive, but more so the magnitude. No one else can boast a combined 7 Golds from OG/WC (at least not in 1 discipline, but I don't think overall either). 6 AE and 2 AG titles aren't too shabby either.
Lol- the only MS to win 2 Olympic Gold medals
- the only MS to win Olympics at home and away
- the only MS to win 2 Olympic Gold medals on two different continents
- the only MS to defend his Olympic Gold
- the only reigning Olympic champion to defend his title
but wait... there's more.
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yuquall
Regular Member
Seems like it is going to be a tough(er) draw for LD in IO.
JOJ in R1,
CTC (again!) in R2,
high possibly JC (again!) in QF,
and if he made it through SF Momota or Ginting will be waiting for him.
Well, I don't think LD had ever done especially well in Indonesia Open before so I can only say "All the Best" and I truly, earnestly, sincerely hope that @Nine Tailed Fox 's wish of LD winning this particular exhibition would come true.
JOJ in R1,
CTC (again!) in R2,
high possibly JC (again!) in QF,
and if he made it through SF Momota or Ginting will be waiting for him.
Well, I don't think LD had ever done especially well in Indonesia Open before so I can only say "All the Best" and I truly, earnestly, sincerely hope that @Nine Tailed Fox 's wish of LD winning this particular exhibition would come true.
CLELY
Regular Member
Well, I don't think LD had ever done especially well in Indonesia Open before so I can only say "All the Best" and I truly, earnestly, sincerely hope that @Nine Tailed Fox 's wish of LD winning this particular exhibition would come true.
Indeed, even he didn't show his best in World Championship 2015 which took place in same venue. Only Thomas Cup 2004 & 2008 he performed well at Istora.
yuquall
Regular Member
WTH? Lin Dan will play JOJ in R1 AGAIN and CTC (AGAIN??) in R2. Exactly the same draw he has in I_O
What kind of draw is this?
https://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/draw.aspx?id=F99735B1-3F77-4524-854E-9B06E10D1527&draw=1
_OWhat kind of draw is this?
https://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/draw.aspx?id=F99735B1-3F77-4524-854E-9B06E10D1527&draw=1
I take heart that Lin Dan actually played very well against Chou Tien Chen who is in excellent form at the INA Open. If only there was Hawk-eye IRS during their match, he could've won the deuce in G1 (not to mention other disputed linecalls) and, who knows, perhaps went on to take the match in two straight sets, for in the last half of the decider, Lin Dan looked a bit tired in the 'titanic' struggle.
On the whole, a hard-fought quality match in my opinion. CTC looks to be in top form.
For sure, hardly anyone relish playing Lin Dan in the early rounds, the grand old man of badminton is still a force to be reckoned with when he is not too physically stretched.
On the whole, a hard-fought quality match in my opinion. CTC looks to be in top form.
For sure, hardly anyone relish playing Lin Dan in the early rounds, the grand old man of badminton is still a force to be reckoned with when he is not too physically stretched.
Nine Tailed Fox
Regular Member
Some linesman robbed him again. Robbed at gun point, at 21-20.