Lin Dan walkover in MO

Discussion in 'Malaysia Open / Korea Open 2011' started by xymaerts, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. jasonmarc

    jasonmarc Regular Member

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    Save your breath, they will never going to accept that............lol, they rather keep sleeping !
     
  2. Tommy Susanto

    Tommy Susanto Regular Member

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    LD can't take the heat, just RETIRE lah;)No need to speak for him china's SAR boy:p
     
  3. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    Well, I wasn't going to say too much about this post in this thread. But, there are a few things that need to be said about the points being raised.

    The point about 6 tournaments a year being a lot for Lin Dan is a complete joke. Tying it to the topic of this thread (Walk Overs), how pathetic is it then that in the limited number of tournaments he does enter he grants walk overs in? All your premise of Lin Dan's reduced participation in the tournament circuit does is increase the percentage of tournaments he grants WOs in.

    Now in response to your overall premise, which I'm not sure I agree with, is that the mark of a truly great players then? If you are correct then it just reinforces the point that Lin Dan doesn't deserve to be consider a 'great' of the game of badminton either in a historical sense or in the current era. I can't think of any great player in any sport where the last 5 years of their career was basically a coffee break. Now his fanatics will jump up and down at this, but let them. They will only be around until the next great Chinese player comes around and then their memories of Lin Dan will only last as long as their Lin Dan T-Shirts (if that long). Or China will become dominate in another sport and they'll move on as professed rabid fans of that sport and good riddance.
     
  4. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    I think this thread has run its full course and is now going back to square one.Let's move on.
     
  5. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    While I agree with you, I say better here than having the topic infect the 'Lin Dan' thread under the 'professional players' heading like I've seen it has.
     
  6. je2108

    je2108 New Member

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    Being a sportsman myself, what I know about abdominal injury is muscle pulled/torn in the abdomen area (pls, correct me if I'm wrong). I have twice experienced muscle pulled in the abdomen/rib which forced me to rest for 1 full month and that, after a steroid injection! LD got injured less than 2 weeks ago (abdomen injury) and ironically, he is playing in the Korean Open without showing any sign of injury what so ever.!Only miracle can heal him so quick! :) My logic instinct telling me that, maybe, just maybe, the Msian officer was cheated by the China's communist antics.

    High level badminton tournaments are not solely for the players - to participate, to compete for honours and glory but also for the fans to enjoy, for the sponsors to inject money and advertise their products & services. Enjoyment may come from the anticipation of a great battle between 2 great players. Tennis court will be thronged by tennis fans for a Federer-Nadal match and golf course will be flooded by spectators when Tiger is in contention on Sunday.

    During the recent Malaysian Open, I can imagine, maybe there were badminton fans cancelled their holidays trip during that weekend just because they wanted to watch the potential great battle between LCW and LD. Maybe some already travelled from northern and southern states of West Msia or from East Msia (Sabah & Sarawak) to KL for the match. Maybe some Singaporeans already planned to drive to KL in a convoy for the showdown. Maybe some cancelled their fishing trip. Maybe some guys already postponed their date with their girlfriends. Maybe some declined function invitation or maybe some already planned postponing washing their dog during the weekend!

    How about sponsors? Knowing the potential great clash between the 2 champions, I am sure they were anticipating a 5-stars rated event...Sponsor's Company Treasurer was saying to his boss: "I think we did a good decision by sponsoring this highly rated tournament - fans are flocking, tv coverage getting higher rating. What do you think, boss?". Boss: "Good, good...good decision...good for the company, great venue to advertise our products! hehe..."

    Everybody was expecting the semi final...LD will play against LCW..teng, teng, teng..adrenalin started flowing into the bloodstream...dig dup, dig dup my heart was pounding harder.

    From my search in the Twitter, many fans from Indonesia were sending tweets something like..."Wah, ngak sabar mo liat LD dan LCW maen. Agak2 siapa bisa unggul kali ini yah?" (I can't wait to see the clash between LD and LCW. Who will win this time around yah?)

    Lo and behold, Lin Dan pulled out!! Arrrrggghhhhh!!!!!!

    Please someone, convey my message to the BWF - GIVE THE FANS AND SPONSORS SOME RESPECT. Do something about this selfish, unethical and unsporting behavior.
     
  7. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    yes, the MO is long over, let's move on to more "current issues",it is becoming a drag.

    The LD thread will be closely monitored anyway by people in charge as always, no fear.
     
  8. choonie

    choonie Regular Member

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    The official age of Lin Dan's is...... 27....... and guess what.... If I didn't see that, I would have thought he was a 34-5 years old player by comparing him to LCW...
     
  9. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    You could be right, people claim that athletes in China start training too young and also grow old faster.

    European players do not age that rapidly and can play into their 30s.
     
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Thinking about it.
     
  11. Jonc108

    Jonc108 Regular Member

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    Seriously speaking, no-one likes the WO culture in badminton particularly CHN players as we all like to see top players playing, however we should look in depth why this exist in badminton? IMO The reasons are far more profound than simple cure like strict rules, heavy fines...etc whatever I call another kinds of facistism:

    1. Badminton is still a poor sport that most players could not earn a living on simply winning competitions. Look at tennis, also take CHN as example, Li Na and some other female tennis players are able to breakaway fr CHN national tennis authority and become autonomous on the professional career, ask ourselves why not badminton players?

    2. In CHN, due to their national sports policy, various sports are also competing for resources, players competing for survival. Do u know how many national players become jobless after retirement or even worse situations!? Those ever won honours for the country would be guaranteed some official jobs. For the players and even the coaches, this is a live or death situation!

    LYB knows that, therefore he has to maintain his team a winning team to keep it's competitiveness in national sports resources and sponsorship, i.e. a pragmatic way of running his team...

    It's easy for fans like us to sit back in the sofa and critizise from a morale highland. Yet until badminton could offer the players good bargaining power to have autonomy, i.e. When badminton become real professional sport, u will still have lot of these WOs.
     
  12. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Sadly IMO, your entire post is nothing but a justification for a course of action that was fundamentally wrong, as were many other posts on this thread. No matter how much of a human face you put on it, please remember that they (CBA) are the only one doing it at this level in this sport. Because they are 100% sure they can get away with it!

    WRT your point about retired players being jobless etc, that is not something unique to China. It happens more often than you credit in other countries. In fact I would be quite sure that the PRC would ensure that their players had some level of dignified work and a place to stay, after they retired. Compared to the sad stories from other countries, I would say they are well off and reasonably well looked after.
     
    #272 cobalt, Jan 28, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  13. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    If you find this thread a drag, you should just ignore it and move on. Why should it bother you? The posts are high quality and the posters are rather civilized. Why must you chime in like an alarm clock when the discussion is still good? Some people take a long time to get involved or discover this thread. Obviously it' s also a reflection of how strongly posters feel about this behavior.
     
  14. george@chongwei

    george@chongwei Regular Member

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    So far there's no sign of injury or muscle pulled for Lin Dan in Korea Open. Totally in good shape.:)
     
  15. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    LD is a walking advertisement now for Korean Ginseng! :D
    Or, errr, Chinese acupuncture.... ???? :D
     
  16. Jonc108

    Jonc108 Regular Member

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    No offence, U r just a vivid example of those sofa fans. I had no interest to justify to u anything, but I think from social science's point of view, u could not codemn a social phenophanum without knowing why it exists, if u really have a heart towards it and want to help. It's always easy to condemn something from moral highland and walk-away...

    I am sad that you are not even bothered to listen but just categorically call these "fundamentally" wrong? Tell me what are your so-called "fundamentals"? Did they commit a crime? I would call this a difference in "value-judgement" but would not call it "fundamentally WRONG".

    Like it or not, badminton in China, it is still treated as a team sport rather than an individual sport. Fairly speaking, such nature is also more or less adopted in many other nations including MAS, INA & KOR... Look at that:

    1. Have u noticed the difference on TV broadcasting between badminton and tennis? For badminton, the player's names are under national flags or so, in tennis, just the player's name! This happens in all competitions, You know I am not talking about team events... Ask ourselves why??? Because all badminton authorities still treat all players as national representatives, not individual players!!

    2. U guess why LCW always got lot of pressure at majors? Because he bears the pressure of the whole national badminton team, and the whole nation! Did Federer or Nadal bear the same? When RF or Nadal playing in the 4 Grand Slams, do u think they ever consider themselves as representatives of their respective countries or just their own? Think about it...

    It's the team-sport nature in China that lead to the coach's power to decide who's playing or not. There need time & qualitative evolution to change the situation, not by just talk and police. Even in team sports, u could note there were evolution & shift in the relationship amongst clubs, coaches and players after the Bosman case when players start to financially & contractually have more say... Same for NBA.

    Like it or not, LYB's strategy did brought prosperity of badminton in China and his players enjoying good return in both wealth from flooding sponsorships and the new league, and fame from their honor brought to their nationals. So he cannot care less whatever outside China.

    Maybe we could wait and see what are at the end more detrimental to the sport...

    (btw, u mentioned CHN players are normally well off due to govt's arrangements when retired, but u didn't know this only happens to those loyal and obedient to national authorities.)
     
    #276 Jonc108, Jan 28, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  17. Jonc108

    Jonc108 Regular Member

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    As I said, injury or no-injury, that's not the point... ;)
     
  18. laonong

    laonong Regular Member

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    well said.

    Li Na just entered Australian open final as the first Chinese player. She will earn around 1 million dollars if she wins final tomorrow. If she play Zheng Jie, another Chinese female player, in the semi final, I don't think she would walk away even the official in charge of China tennis ask her to withdraw. Why? Li Na wants the prize money just as she said in the interview after she won the semi-final. And Li Na does not belong to National tennis team. Those million dollar prize money will belong to her and her team (her husband is her coach).
     
  19. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Hmmm... you know nothing about me, and yet you hasten to pass judgement on me personally. Interesting...

    Social science? Social phenomenon?? What are you talking about? You want me to help with what? Giving a humane face to cheating and misrepresenting, and manipulation to the detriment of the sport? This gets more interesting.

    I apologize for your sadness. I did not insinuate that they have committted a "crime." There is no "value-judgement." When you go around touting different sets of values, you promote the grey vista of convenient interpretation. Something is "fundamentally wrong" if it involves convenient interpretation; narrow-band thinking in a situation where a commitment has been made to present your case with full honesty; the act of dishonestly presenting your case; the act of intentionally mis-informing or mis-leading or "bending" the truth while presenting your case; the willingness to take a weak framework of governance and bend it to suit your personal (or "teams" or "country's" or"Association's") agenda despite being fully aware that this would contravene the broad framework under which the game is played.

    Which brings me to the point: The player, coach, manager, staff, support staff, referees, line judges, service judges, backroom staff, and association, ALL OF THESE are fully aware that every tournament and event is played by people who proudly represent the honour of their country, and that the spirit of fair play must be upheld in every way as long as you wear your country's flag, OR even if you don't.

    There are many other sports, as well as many teams within the sport of badminton itself, who have more need to resort to the tactics that the CBA has been doing. Yet they do not. You go ahead and ask yourself: "WHY NOT?"

    YOu keep harping on "in China" like it is the the one thing that should make the difference. It's the team sport in every country that plays competitive badminton!!!
    When the coach or whoever resorts to manipulation and outright misreprestation, then we need to ask ourselves, "when did this stop being a game, and become a sordid battleground?"

    And so once again, his not caring less what happens outside of China is fine? OK. In that case, WHY DOESN'T HE JUST KEEP HIS BOYS INSIDE CHINA, AND NOT PARTICIPATE IN BWF OR ANY OTHER EVENTS? Answer: He cannot afford to. He needs the rest of the world as much as they need China. But, in this instance, there is only on side that is playing the game in the spirit of the game.

    You still want to wait and see??? Good luck, kid. :)

    That itself should tell you all you need to know about their unhealthy value system, and the basic insecurity they promote. If it yet sounds like just the place you would want to be, you can go ahead without me. :)

    To wrap up: I have heard that China prides itself on being the most "civilized" country, "the middle kingdom" and all that. On the evidence presented so far, permit me to doubt. They've been going for glory, but have stripped themselves of all honour along the way. Reminds me of another country that long ago, forgot about the Russian winter, as Sir Winston remarked. That of course as the world knows, has changed.
     
    #279 cobalt, Jan 28, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  20. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    No it's not easy. What is easy is to sit back on the sofa observe systematic abuse of the tournament system and say nothing. The rest of your paragraph makes no sense. Starting from 'Yet until' and continuing to the end. You've either made some gramatical error or a suffered a lapse in logic.
     

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