Lin Dan walkover in MO

Thank you for clarifying, Hauge. Very illuminating post!
Unfortunately, it still takes 2 hands to clap. Someone gives the order; someone obeys the order.
I can understand the position that someone like LD may be in... life's work... etc.
I think he is a big enough person to take a stance if he wanted to...
Its a real shame. A disgrace.
 
Cheung said:
That's quite true. If you are employed, you have to listen to the employer.

If you are self-employed as a professional, then you decide yourself wether to play or not.
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Not true. If the employer was to tell you to commit an outright crime or something that smelt illegal, would you? What does that say about you?
 
cobalt said:
So, some more "speculation"...

Again: what sort of example is LD setting for the millions of young people who look up to him as their idol???
"It's OK to manipluate the system, just as long as you don't get caught."
A fine example!!!!

Some people will say, he has no choice, he has to do what he is told to do. I call that a lame excuse for a person who has a convenient set of values.
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Unfortunately it is not Lame excuse...One of " insider" told me that LD is against many ideas at that time but cant do anything against LYB..he is more powerful that his Boss.
Also The advertising money that :D earned is at CBA..until he retires, he will get at least 70% ( been told, not sure about the percentage) .Been told after OLYMPIC, LD got money enough to buy apartment,etc..
Not easy for being CHN players and this image looks bad on LD for sure...again the glory is for country.

Look at Tennis, it is totally different, even CHN players like LI NA has their own management and CHN players play double with Taiwanese, japanese, others...Thats BWF needs to change...I keep asking that question to BWF, the problem is INA, KOR, MAS and CHN do not like that idea to allow players register themselves....if we want these problems to be avoided, we need to convince, CHN, INA, MAS and KOR to change it....
 
Han said:
Is good to see players like Chong Wei and Taufik expressed their opinion about the common/routine WO among Chinese players and even better we as a fan to express our disgust thru this forum and make it as loud as we can to impact China future decision on WO. Lin Dan may in fact withdrew due to injury but please don't treat the fan like ignorant, most of us are players also, we understand injury and we also capable spotting unsportmanship with WO ...
Can the forum setup somesort of survey about fan reaction/agreement with Lin Dan WO? I think is good to let Lin Dan know about his popularity statistic, if he cares at all?
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I do not think LD could do something even he cares..
Also please note that for badminton players, each players has different passports from normal CHN citizen...it is so called " business passport" valid for one year ( been told)...if any CHN fans know, please let us know..
 
limsy said:
u are not paying,u can say it cool and steady
u think the crowd come for the pretty wang shi xian?
the good looking chai biao?
sorry,80%of them is there for lcw vs ld;)
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im pretty sure 100% of them have LD vs LCW as the match they must see and so would i but i dont think 80% would not go if LD was not in the tournament

the fact is the MO hosted much better players with the Chinese team sending most of their A players

i also dont understand why people bitch about the WS walkover... there was nothing to gain from it and im pretty sure no one cared about that newcomer that probably would've lost anyway
 
huangkwokhau said:
Been told that certain injuries cant be proved by Doc 100%..
BWF knows it but it is not easy to prove.
The whole root of the problem is ALWAYS that badminton is not PROF sport. As Long as Badminton players cant register themselves but only by association...

These things will go on and on.

There is no points to force LD play...I saw many matches, even in IO 2009, CJ vs LD in quarter final, 3rd set, ( many China fans from INA will tell you) that LD purposely lost that match by either hitting to net or out.....too obvious...also he told transport organizer at that morning to get to him to airport next day ( before he played his quarter final match).

Again, that system allows it.
I suggest not to blame any Chinese players...trust me! They are really nice but they cant do anything. Proof? okay in 2007 or 2008 ( I forgot which year) in Guang Zhou.
CHN MD vs Joko Riyadi/Hendra A.G.
The service judge is from China..the player did very illegal serve, INA MD protested. INA MD lost because it was 21-20, with that serve, China won 22-20.
That " retired" CHN MD went to toilet to find Hendra AG and Joko ( I was there) He apologized personally for that serve and told us that he had been asked by the coach to do that serve .He felt bad.Again he apologized, not once but twice...
Since then BWF changed the rule that service judge has to be from other country ( BWF changed after KOREA Open)
I still believe that CHN players wanted to play and they do not want to lose to their team mates...
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Rudy, we have talked many times on long distance phone and I concur with u and your inside knowledge. As long as badminton is not independently professional and depends on handouts from tax-payer which in turn is controlled by a boss manager, this show will go on.
Boycott, WO, gifting to result fixing, BWF must have tried to look at every angle to resolve these problems and helplessly nothing BWF can do. AT least, forcing players to play at least 10 SS to qualify for OLY12, seems to solve the boycott issue. WO with/without medical approval, gifting and result fixing, there is no BWF regulation to stop that, and if the boss wanna do that, there is nothing BWF can do about that. And that is my point.
 
Yoppy said:
You'll never know OTB, the likes of TH and PG were a shooting star which means they are suddendly appear out of nowhere. Perhaps ATM out of the radar, a 15 yrs old boy in Kuching or Central Java is making his way to become the next world champ.
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Yop, of course, that could happen...but right now, there ain't anyone we can see yet. I am not sure everyone sees how gifted and talented LD, LCW, TH and PG are. Even CHN with her aggresive badminton investment in the sport, has yet to find a next LD, same for TH in INA and my birth place MAS, today there is still no one that can serve as quality training partner to LCW, and 35 yr old PG in DEN still the best player from DEN or entire Europe.
 
It seems that logic and sense are somewhat lacking in some posts.

In this particular case, LD was authorized by the Tournament organizers to withdraw on Malaysian medical opinions. No matter what rules you propose, short of a machine rendered opinion, LD's withdrawal was legitimate and would not have been penalized under any rules, or be compelled to play in the tournament.

Also, it's a laugh to say that pro players can make their own decisions. Yeah, they might be free from their associations. Even then, don't forget that particiation in events like Asian Games and Olympic Games will always be controlled by the associations.

Even being pros, players still must answer to their sponsors. There is no lack of cases where players were coerced to particiapte in events by their sponsors, to the detriment of their health. It wouldn't surprise me if pro players are asked to give up certain events, if need be, to guarantee participation and performance at events where their sponsors have key interest.

Even on a persoanl level, imagine that as if LD is totally free to make his own decision. Why would he risk aggregating an injury for a MO title at the expense of Olympic glory that can mean millions for years? Campared to a gold medal at London 2012, even the giant prize at KO is insignificant.

LD walked in China, in Hong Kong. His walk at MO is no more offensive than his walk on home soil.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating that players can be disrespectful to any event. I am just as disappointed, but perhaps not as angry, as the next person for not seeing the showdown between LD and LCW. But, please think calmly for a moment:

(1) It is far from conclusive that LD acted in malice. In fact, the official, MO offical, not CBA/LYB/LD's mom, opinion was that he wasn't.

(2) before blaming the badmintion organizations or political systems, be aware that a personal, commercial decision made free of polictical influence may result in the same outcome.

Now, if anyone has any clever idea to scientifically approve or disapprove a player's withdrawal, keep them coming. It helps to test your ideas on, say, LD's withdrwals at CO, HKO, and MO to see if it can produce any meaningful results.
 
RedShuttle said:
It seems that logic and sense are somewhat lacking in some posts.

In this particular case, LD was authorized by the Tournament organizers to withdraw on Malaysian medical opinions. No matter what rules you propose, short of a machine rendered opinion, LD's withdrawal was legitimate and would not have been penalized under any rules, or be compelled to play in the tournament.

Also, it's a laugh to say that pro players can make their own decisions. Yeah, they might be free from their associations. Even then, don't forget that particiation in events like Asian Games and Olympic Games will always be controlled by the associations.

Even being pros, players still must answer to their sponsors. There is no lack of cases where players were coerced to particiapte in events by their sponsors, to the detriment of their health. It wouldn't surprise me if pro players are asked to give up certain events, if need be, to guarantee participation and performance at events where their sponsors have key interest.

Even on a persoanl level, imagine that as if LD is totally free to make his own decision. Why would he risk aggregating an injury for a MO title at the expense of Olympic glory that can mean millions for years? Campared to a gold medal at London 2012, even the giant prize at KO is insignificant.

LD walked in China, in Hong Kong. His walk at MO is no more offensive than his walk on home soil.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating that players can be disrespectful to any event. I am just as disappointed, but perhaps not as angry, as the next person for not seeing the showdown between LD and LCW. But, please think calmly for a moment:

(1) It is far from conclusive that LD acted in malice. In fact, the official, MO offical, not CBA/LYB/LD's mom, opinion was that he wasn't.

(2) before blaming the badmintion organizations or political systems, be aware that a personal, commercial decision made free of polictical influence may result in the same outcome.

Now, if anyone has any clever idea to scientifically approve or disapprove a player's withdrawal, keep them coming. It helps to test your ideas on, say, LD's withdrwals at CO, HKO, and MO to see if it can produce any meaningful results.
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:)
this has to win an award for best-written reply to the venom spewing from other forummers here who "think" they know a lot.

Super Dan and his team acted according to the laws of BWF and absolutely nothing wrong.
However I wonder how BWF will react when they heard datuk purposely threw points away during a Final of a super series event?
and shamelessly admit it in front of a camera?
 
Condemning the current most successful team and player of cheating or unsportsmanlike over a minor issue such as conceding a WO due to injury...LOL, these people must be smarter then the Officials. Introduce more stringent penalty or changing the rules? Why would one thinks it's necessary when it's part and parcel of the game which give us more dramas and excitement. Bet, sour grapes pickers would have come up with all sorts of defenses if their beloved Team or Player had done likewise.

Look guys, it's a waste of time with all these wishy washy assumptions and condemnations...ain't nobody here could change a thing as far as BWF is concern. The facts are, fair or not, Team China's management/strategy worked and will dominate the world of badminton in years to come, while LD will still be arguably the "BEST" player of all time till this era in terms of achievements.

To save yourself the blushes, just wish that your favorite team's system changes for the better and your idol is able to maintain the level of fitness and capabilities to remain competitive for more honors.

Put the current "BIG FIVE" badminton power houses into perspective; only Team China have a wealth of quality players to choose from and a long list of capable replacements...others are just ONE MAN/PAIR SHOW and fading out. The picture is very clear, Team China and it's players must be doing things right while others might be lagging in one way or another...there's no denying about the truth.

For the record, I'm Malaysian and seriously concerned about the current situation of BAM. I don't have to draw a picture...you know what I mean.
 
RedShuttle said:
It seems that logic and sense are somewhat lacking in some posts.

In this particular case, LD was authorized by the Tournament organizers to withdraw on Malaysian medical opinions. No matter what rules you propose, short of a machine rendered opinion, LD's withdrawal was legitimate and would not have been penalized under any rules, or be compelled to play in the tournament.

Also, it's a laugh to say that pro players can make their own decisions. Yeah, they might be free from their associations. Even then, don't forget that particiation in events like Asian Games and Olympic Games will always be controlled by the associations.

Even being pros, players still must answer to their sponsors. There is no lack of cases where players were coerced to particiapte in events by their sponsors, to the detriment of their health. It wouldn't surprise me if pro players are asked to give up certain events, if need be, to guarantee participation and performance at events where their sponsors have key interest.

Even on a persoanl level, imagine that as if LD is totally free to make his own decision. Why would he risk aggregating an injury for a MO title at the expense of Olympic glory that can mean millions for years? Campared to a gold medal at London 2012, even the giant prize at KO is insignificant.

LD walked in China, in Hong Kong. His walk at MO is no more offensive than his walk on home soil.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating that players can be disrespectful to any event. I am just as disappointed, but perhaps not as angry, as the next person for not seeing the showdown between LD and LCW. But, please think calmly for a moment:

(1) It is far from conclusive that LD acted in malice. In fact, the official, MO offical, not CBA/LYB/LD's mom, opinion was that he wasn't.

(2) before blaming the badmintion organizations or political systems, be aware that a personal, commercial decision made free of polictical influence may result in the same outcome.

Now, if anyone has any clever idea to scientifically approve or disapprove a player's withdrawal, keep them coming. It helps to test your ideas on, say, LD's withdrwals at CO, HKO, and MO to see if it can produce any meaningful results.
Click to expand...

Logic and common sense are not necessarily the same thing. And you can argue this till the cows come home, but will be nowhere nearer the truth.

Pro players can make their own decisions if they so wish. Yes, they do have to answer to the sponsors etc, but they are not owned by the sponsors. The day is not far when corpoations own you and your wife and still unborn as well, but thankfully there is still free will around. If you wish to exercise it, that is.

You can take a very hard decision if you are covinced that you have to draw a line somewhere. Else you can keep making excuses, and remain bought. And die bought. And maybe even be proud of it and justify it.

There are many "pro" players who have drawn the line at some time, and have reaped a certain amount of respect from people who appreciate truth and fairness. Remember, most of the people who have posted their views that do not meet your standards of logic and sense, have been fulminating about how the system has been manipulated to the extent that the authorities can do nothing, even though the coincidences keep stacking up.

What exactly does "aggregating an injury" mean?

No one suggested that Lin Dan "acted in malice." Where did you get that from? What exactly have you been reading here? Maybe you need to back up and read about the fact that even the doctors admit there is no way they can truly ascertain the condition of the player but have to take his input/word to a large extent. But "acted in malice?????" Dear me!!!

In your point #2, are you perhaps suggesting "fixing?"

Finally, a certain Benjamin Disraeli has this to say about "clever ideas to scientifically approve or disapprove..."
"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."
 
huangkwokhau said:
Unfortunately it is not Lame excuse...One of " insider" told me that LD is against many ideas at that time but cant do anything against LYB..he is more powerful that his Boss.
Also The advertising money that :D earned is at CBA..until he retires, he will get at least 70% ( been told, not sure about the percentage) .Been told after OLYMPIC, LD got money enough to buy apartment,etc..
Not easy for being CHN players and this image looks bad on LD for sure...again the glory is for country.
.... snip ....
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That is truly sad! I really feel for those guys now, being locked into a system and never really getting your rewards unless you do exactly what they want of you. And even then, no guarantee of the rewards. I guess there really is no justice... :(
 
Logic & sense are lost when people get mad with things not to their benefit...

Talking about fans bought tickets expecting to see certain match but disappointed on not happening, I also used to have bought tickets in advance for a first round match expecting to see LCW's one. But he withdraw a few days before the kick off claiming injury. How about that?

Well I enjoyed the match featuring the replacement PFQ player who did play hard and good...

Sports matches not like concerts, buying a ticket for a Australian Open do not guarrantee a Nadal-Federer final, have a Laker's home match ticket do not promise u appearance of Kobe, and ManU also play 2nd team players for many league matches to reserve d star player for another forthcoming match...

So relax and enjoy what we have on hand...
 
RedShuttle said:
It seems that logic and sense are somewhat lacking in some posts.

In this particular case, LD was authorized by the Tournament organizers to withdraw on Malaysian medical opinions. No matter what rules you propose, short of a machine rendered opinion, LD's withdrawal was legitimate and would not have been penalized under any rules, or be compelled to play in the tournament.

Also, it's a laugh to say that pro players can make their own decisions. Yeah, they might be free from their associations. Even then, don't forget that particiation in events like Asian Games and Olympic Games will always be controlled by the associations.

Even being pros, players still must answer to their sponsors. There is no lack of cases where players were coerced to particiapte in events by their sponsors, to the detriment of their health. It wouldn't surprise me if pro players are asked to give up certain events, if need be, to guarantee participation and performance at events where their sponsors have key interest.

Even on a persoanl level, imagine that as if LD is totally free to make his own decision. Why would he risk aggregating an injury for a MO title at the expense of Olympic glory that can mean millions for years? Campared to a gold medal at London 2012, even the giant prize at KO is insignificant.

LD walked in China, in Hong Kong. His walk at MO is no more offensive than his walk on home soil.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating that players can be disrespectful to any event. I am just as disappointed, but perhaps not as angry, as the next person for not seeing the showdown between LD and LCW. But, please think calmly for a moment:

(1) It is far from conclusive that LD acted in malice. In fact, the official, MO offical, not CBA/LYB/LD's mom, opinion was that he wasn't.

(2) before blaming the badmintion organizations or political systems, be aware that a personal, commercial decision made free of polictical influence may result in the same outcome.

Now, if anyone has any clever idea to scientifically approve or disapprove a player's withdrawal, keep them coming. It helps to test your ideas on, say, LD's withdrwals at CO, HKO, and MO to see if it can produce any meaningful results.
Click to expand...

To keep this discussion short:

If Lin Dan is having the real injury, he should not play in the coming Korea open :D

Why let him suffer and slow down recovery or worsen his injury?

Unless there is another motive we are not aware of :D
 
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