Maffetone training (running)

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by lurker, Feb 16, 2021.

  1. lurker

    lurker Regular Member

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  2. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    Well... that's a tricky one.

    Short answer: No.

    Long answer:
    Like he says, it's a training to improve your health and fitness. That's always a good thing. It depends on the state you're in if it will help your performance on court directly, but chances are that you will at least feel like you play better and you'll be able to play at the same level for a longer period.

    But it's the opposite of what a badminton player should focus on if he's already healthy and kinda fit. I'm Badminton you have short intervals (rallies) way above your maximum aerobic heart rate, close to your (overall) maximum heart rate. Unfortunately that guy kinda messes up those two in between when talking, because for him, talking about that training, the maximum heart rate refers to the aerobic heart rate. When playing badminton, your heart rate will only drop to the aerobic range between rallies.

    Badminton needs your muscles to work with the stored energy inside them, needing then and the rest of the body to refill that storage quickly between the rallies.

    This training is meant to increase the power the muscles can produce without going to the anaerobic energy cycle. It also will help your metabolism adapt to that. It's a classical endurance/stamina training.

    Like you can see, those two things are quite different and a badminton player already does train the stamina in many different ways, during the breaks between points, warm up (can easily be 40 minutes or more), cool down, recovery training, ... so not a ton is needed to add to that. You can say that this training is a great foundation to build up on, but it's hard to say if it's really all that easy to get back the speed on court.

    If you want to dig deeper, learn about the different muscle fibers, different ways to train a muscle and metabolism... and I'm almost certain you'll learn that training is more about opinion than about hard facts. Just like the above is an opinion. A guess. I cannot give you any study that actually tried to find out about the usefulness of this kind of training for (recreational) badminton players, let alone other studies to confirm that. I know that in many sports very different training regimes did yield comparable results in the past, so to add more opinion: If you enjoy the training, do it, care about the badminton shape later (but before you get back on court) or add in more badminton specific training in between. It's certainly better than not doing any sports.
     
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  3. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    no. and this is a personal experience.

    MAF trains slow twitch endurance muscles. ie. muscles low power output but lasts for a long time. badminton on the other hand, requires explosive muscles for short intervals. I have gone into running for a few years and my badminton game has gotten slower as a result.

    However, if you are able to complement badminton with some running, it is ok. You just have to make sure you got the right mix. ie. don't replace badminton with running and expect badminton to get better as a result of the newly developed running muscles.
     
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  4. asadafgs

    asadafgs Regular Member

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    The best stimulus is multishuttle. If not, running is great as well. Try to supplement the running with agility, plyometrics, and strength training.

    For your question specifically, the above is not really a great representation of distance running training. The main idea of distance running training is that most of the miles you run are at an easier pace and then you also have workouts. New runners will try to run every run pretty hard. If you cannot play badminton, and would like to train fitness, I would follow a training plan for 1500m. There are lots of these online for free(although some are of questionable quality) and you can also search letsrun for 1500m training.

    As to address whether or not running like this will hamper your speed on the court, I don’t think it will. Badminton is not so concerned about explosiveness as athletics and others like weightlifting are. Just make sure to supplement your running with other exercises. While the energy systems are comparable in 1500m and badminton, the muscles used differ.
     
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  5. lurker

    lurker Regular Member

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    any links you would recommend to check on this 1500m training?
     
  6. lurker

    lurker Regular Member

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    i guess for badminton, HIIT runs would be a better choice?
     
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  7. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    Yes.

    This is over-simplified, but still the point. Badminton does use a lot of slow pitched muscle fibers, not only fast pitched, but they're trained in a different way than a runner's. So...
    This is just not true. You will sacrifice speed on court significantly. The question is what's the alternative? No sports at all? Hell, do this training! The other question is, how fast you can regain that speed.
    If you want to do something, maybe running, maybe something else, do something else that you can complement with running. Or at least change that training plan to include (very) high intensity intervals of varying lengths, include quick switch off directions, include plyometrics, work on your ankle, knee, and core stability.

    For the high intensity intervals, (for example) take a distance of 20 m and always run at full speed, far above the maximum aerobic heart rate. The training is this:
    • run the distance one time
    • rest
    • two times
    • rest
    • three times
    • rest
    • [...]
    • seven times
    • rest
    • six times
    • rest
    • [...]
    • one time
    Repeat after a break. The rest time should be half the time you need for the runs, so it's variable. This ensures the faster you get, the more you train your body to refill your muscles quickly. Maybe start with 5 times 20 m at the beginning...
    It's not the only way, but include something like this with very high intensity, but not limited to a specific distance/time.
    To complement badminton and/or, I can also recommend kettlebell swings - a very old exercise. Don't be shy with the weight, but take your time to get the form right. Once you've done that, do sets of ten swings, start with somewhere between 5 and 10 of those (the form should not suffer), then build your way up to twenty (or even more?) of those 10 swing sets. It's a great exercise for the entire backside of your body, including some core stability, shoulder stability, and grip strength. And great to do in intervals. Just needs around 2 m². You just need a kettlebell, somewhere between 12 kg and 20 kg.
    Do Burpees, but vary it, once you can. Don't make it a jump at the end, make it tuck jump! A tuck jump coming from that deep squat will move the quads all the way and you need to be explosive - just like on court.

    There's tons of things you can do.

    Your first post sounds like it's either running or nothing, but it really depends on what you're willing to do. There's a lot that's possible, running is one of the most satisfying experiences... but you should at least not limit yourself to that.
     
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  8. asadafgs

    asadafgs Regular Member

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    Everything your body does requires energy. Higher intensity work will require more energy. There are three main systems, aerobic respiration, anaerobic respiration, and the phosphagen system. Energy demands are met by aerobic respiration. When energy demands become too high, the body begins to rely on anaerobic respiration as well. This is where the problem comes in. When the body begins to rely on anaerobic respiration, hydrogen ions begin to accumulate, ultimately causing that feeling of soreness and inability to use your muscles during a workout: exercise induced muscle acidosis. Therefore the goal is to have as strong an aerobic system as possible, so that you can use the anaerobic system as little as possible.

    And as singles is very much so a matter of endurance, a strong aerobic system is clearly beneficial. Now the question is whether or not the speed that you will lose from training say for 1500m instead of say training for 100m compared to the endurance you gain is a good tradeoff or not. Since badminton is not so much concerned about how high you can jump or how hard you can smash, but moreso endurance and consistency, I do think that 1500m training or perhaps 800m training is ultimately advantageous
     
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  9. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    You're missing some very important points. Your over-simplifying. The problem is that it leads you to the wrong conclusion. The last sentence is just wrong.
     
  10. asadafgs

    asadafgs Regular Member

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    ok
     
  11. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    That depends heavily on where you are fitness-wise. If you have no cardiovascular endurance, then this might be beneficial. If you need to lose weight, it'll help you shed some pounds. But if you're already in decent shape and want to get really fit, it's absolutely not the correct approach. Even high-tempo interval running has its limits, since it can get hard to keep good form and protect your joints towards the end of a session. If you can't afford an exercise bike or have an empty court, it's a good option as long as halls are closed.
    I'd prefer kettle bell swings and rope skipping though.

    When doing any sort of running, make sure to also do mobility drills for the lower body at least. It tends to tighten you up, and encourages a higher stance. Best to also do split-squats and squats. If you don't know split-squats, I recommend kneesovertoesguy on YT.
     
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  12. lurker

    lurker Regular Member

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    yup, I have added skipping with runs
     
  13. FeatherDance

    FeatherDance Regular Member

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    Hey man, I too have not been playing not just when it isn't allowed but also due to safety reasons as it is an enclosed space. It is certainly depressing when something that you were crazy about just gets taken away from you for months. I resolved to running as well to stay sane, not to benefit badminton in any way. Used to do shuttle drills at the beginning of the lockdown which felt rigorous but after 5 months, it felt pointless and I stopped. Like many have posted here, running certainly has health benefits, but I'm not sure how much it could benefit badminton if you're already fit. Even if it has resemblances some track distances - I used to play badminton with a guy who runs a sub 4min 1,500m and he tires more easily on court. I remember being puzzled at first but I guess it's just a different animal.
     

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