Malaysia Open 2008 - Day 6 - Jan 20 - FINAL

[Pemuda]

It is more on koo/tan over the hill, to add more pain to MAS fans, Rexy is leaving. Life sucks, ain't it? On the other hand, Mk/HS rocks on and marching steadily towards OG

And talking about pain, pretty painful eh to not see any Indon players in the men's singles final, eh?

 

[justin-terbalik]

And talking about pain, pretty painful eh to not see any Indon players in the men's singles final, eh?

oh pemuda..i though u r follow the news....Indon??? which country is this? ...

don't get angry if some ppl start to call malaysia as MALINGSIA...Maling=thief.

remember rasa sayange song, steal other country traditional song and claim as original of MAS????

back to badminton......TH will defend his title in OG

 

[abedeng]

..i don't know if practicing their serves more will work/solve their problem (from y'day's MD Final), but IMO, the Danes just have to have a mindset of playing more confident at the net (maybe easier than done)..In other words, the Danes can put the same pressure back to the INA, make the INA pair dictate what the DEN pair wants to do.

Chris, in badminton, everything, including confidence buildup, starts from the serve. Jonas/Lars more than matched MK/HS in every other department (including netplay), except the serve. More than 10 pts were lost on loose serves or service errors. That is a huge statistic. And we haven't got to the part of Hendra's lightning interceptions.

Hauge complained that the World Champs should have put that game away in straight sets, instead of making him suffer and reach out to the sky .....

 

[ctjcad]

Hmm..

Chris, in badminton, everything, including confidence buildup, starts from the serve. Jonas/Lars more than matched MK/HS in every other department (including netplay), except the serve. More than 10 pts were lost on loose serves or service errors. That is a huge statistic. And we haven't got to the part of Hendra's lightning interceptions.

..so, what could cause so many service errors from the Danes??..and if so, any difference(s), that you noticed, between MK & HS to JR & LP's previous opponents; mainly KKK & TBH and FHF & CY, who are as fast if not quicker/faster than the INA pair??..is it simply nerve??..

 

[cooler]

..so, what could cause so many service errors from the Danes??..and if so, any difference(s), that you noticed, between MK & HS to JR & LP's previous opponents; mainly KKK & TBH and FHF & CY, who are as fast if not quicker/faster than the INA pair??..is it simply nerve??..

IMO, yes. Short service error is mostly due to nervousness.

 

[badMania]

..so, what could cause so many service errors from the Danes??..and if so, any difference(s), that you noticed, between MK & HS to JR & LP's previous opponents; mainly KKK & TBH and FHF & CY, who are as fast if not quicker/faster than the INA pair??..is it simply nerve??..

Like I mentioned earlier and confirmed by abedeng...confidence It was clear that the Danes were rattled once their short serves were easily intercepted. They changed that to long serves and they were often attacked quickly by either Kido or Hendra. So, either serves did not work as well as they wanted to

This continued on until the last set, even after the Danes won the second set and was clearly on form in the beginning of the rubber-set.

 

[ctjcad]

If so..

IMO, yes. Short service error is mostly due to nervousness.

Like I mentioned earlier and confirmed by abedeng...confidence It was clear that the Danes were rattled once their short serves were easily intercepted. They changed that to long serves and they were often attacked quickly by either Kido or Hendra. So, either serves did not work as well as they wanted to

This continued on until the last set, even after the Danes won the second set and was clearly on form in the beginning of the rubber-set.

..then didn't they face the same type/kind of speed, quickness, probably playing style, from KKK&TBH and FHF&CY in the earlier encounters??..Or is Hendra was just "quicker" than those 4 players??....
Btw, badMania, prior to their match y'day, how many times have MK&HS and JR&LP met before??..thanks-

 

[badMania]

..then didn't they face the same type/kind of speed, quickness, probably playing style, from KKK&TBH and FHF&CY in the earlier encounters??..Or is Hendra was just "quicker" than those 4 players??....
Btw, badMania, prior to their match y'day, how many times have MK&HS and JR&LP met before??..thanks-

They had met each other 7 times (officially). The INA pair holds a slight advantage at 4-3 (before yesterday's match), with all the earlier wins going the Danes way, as expected, including the Denmark Open 2004 Final.

However, the INA pair won the last few matchups:
In 2007 alone, they beat the Danes three times, in the All-England R32, the Sudirman Cup group match (both matches in rubber-sets) and the Chinese-Taipei Open Final (straight-set, the INA pair totally controlled the second-set).

Note that the Danish pair was destroyed in the second-set of the CTO Final and Jonas made some comments about it in his thread. That was simply Kido/Hendra's at their very best, similar to the first set yesterday, which clearly affected the Danes confidence and mood, despite winning the second set later on.

 

[badMania]

JR's earlier comments on the CTO Final 2007

Everything seemed to go their way and it was a bit frustrating to be on the other side of the net. Even the rallies where we did everything right they won.

 

[ctjcad]

Okay..

They had met each other 7 times (officially). The INA pair holds a slight advantage at 4-3 (before yesterday's match), with all the earlier wins going the Danes way, as expected, including the Denmark Open 2004 Final.

..thanks for the quick head-to-head record recollection..

 

[badMania]

..thanks for the quick head-to-head record recollection..

They mentioned about it in the broadcast, so, it was still in my mind

 

[V3i HoN6]

I wouldn't want to speculate about "the wedding" unless it comes from the couple themselves. The last that I knew was that they are merely good friends unless I'm outdated!

There was a time when Chen Hong and Gao Ling were so 'serious' but in the end they do part. It must have been a great embarrassment.

Of course currently, Lin Dan and Xia Xingfang have exposed their relationship in public and have not denied, therefore it is acceptable to treat them as a couple in love.

But I think we should not treat LCW and WMC in the same manner. So letting the young Malaysian couple concentrate on their training for the Beijing Olympis might just be the right tonic for them, instead of distracting them. Thereafter, we shall await further news, if any.

You are outdated then.
They openly admit it in China and it's been like for years.
At least I saw it with my own eyes that they were holding each other hand shopping in Mid Valley.

.
Agree with you on this V3i HoN6... but this is only for the younger and less inexperienced players.

But players with experience who have already qualified for the OG 2008 such as LD, LCW, XXF, ZN, KKK/TBH, MK/HS, ZYW/WY, YW/ZJW, ZB/GL and NW/LN, all do not need to play more @SS tournaments, but they need to maintain their skills through their training.

However, their fans might want them to continue playing to entertain them.
.

Of course Im taking about our young lads here.
But they aint no LD or XXF.

As for training, going down to the court and plays with the rest of the world (including every level of players) are the best training they ever needed now.
Anyway I was just wondering who will they sparring with if CTF/LWW, CCM/CEE and MF/MZ were away in Korea? Hitting the rexy dummy sign?

I question about Rexy's strategy too, if there's weak spot of the Malaysian pair then find out and fix it now! Staying and training at home will not expose players' weakness in my opinion. Selecting tournaments only adding pressure to the players and now they failed to live up to the expectation and the coach threatened to quit ... wrong strategy, just admit it and move on.
Why so protective for this young pair, let them expose and make more mistakes then guide them accordingly. Imagine putting this pair in China during Olympic, you think they're better prepare now by skipping Korea Open?
I like what Chong Wei is experiencing, he may not win all tournaments but he is exposing to different environment preparing himself for the big one that really counts, the Olympic. All under the same roof of BAM yet so much difference in philosophy from different coaches

You beat me to it.
They know they have something in them.
But right after they flopped, in eager to prove themselves worthy, they get to stay home training instead.
To me, the Korea Open is a big milestone for them after the Malaysia Open tragedy. They will really play their heart out, and to win or to lose, they will sure gain something out of it.
They can continue to skip and then by suprise win the AE and then skip somemore then end up failing the Olympic and then repeat the same thing.

LCW missed all this so called "quality training" at home but still doing great.
How many final he been to at the second half of 2007?

 

[eaglehelang]

.
Agree with you on this V3i HoN6... but this is only for the younger and less inexperienced players.

But players with experience who have already qualified for the OG 2008 such as LD, LCW, XXF, ZN, KKK/TBH, MK/HS, ZYW/WY, YW/ZJW, ZB/GL and NW/LN, all do not need to play more @SS tournaments, but they need to maintain their skills through their training.

.

To me it's utterly bulls, they have enough training, what they need is to play more, lose more and learn from it more.

They've been kept before the WC and been training well, what happened next. The same thing before the MO, they have adequate time for training and it went sour again. In fact they getting worse since they started being selectively participate in competition.

LD also missed MO. KKK/TBH are going for AE, Swiss Open. Two points already covered vy zqloy & Chrisccc :
1) To protect the young TBH, who is buckling to the pressure. LCW took a couple of years to learn to cope. Works different for different people - TBH confidence already going down, lose more, confidence go down even more.

+ they got fatigued last year from participating in too many tourneys. Yes, yes one can argue Fu/Cai, Kido/Setiawan also participate in as many tourneys, but remember the intense criticism they will get each time they lose from government, media, fans. The vultures will come flying down in no time. So, no point participating if not 100% fit.

2) They dont need the ranking pts as much. LCW is goin for Korea, but he might not go for Swiss, the tourneys they choose not to go are different. LD didnt go for MO, he too can pick & choose tournaments.

3) Getting worse? Ppl forget so fast. After grounded 1st time, KKK/TBH won GP Gold Philipines Open, it's a 'small' achievement but sthing. After WC & Japan Open fiasco, they won Macau & Denmark Open.

I question about Rexy's strategy too, if there's weak spot of the Malaysian pair then find out and fix it now! Staying and training at home will not expose players' weakness in my opinion. Selecting tournaments only adding pressure to the players and now they failed to live up to the expectation and the coach threatened to quit ... wrong strategy, just admit it and move on.
Why so protective for this young pair, let them expose and make more mistakes then guide them accordingly. Imagine putting this pair in China during Olympic, you think they're better prepare now by skipping Korea Open?
I like what Chong Wei is experiencing, he may not win all tournaments but he is exposing to different environment preparing himself for the big one that really counts, the Olympic. All under the same roof of BAM yet so much difference in philosophy from different coaches

Read thru again you will find intense criticism each time KKK/TBH lose. They are AG, AE champs, so they are expected to win gold, hopes are very high.
++ from many quarters including media, LCW is not expected to win OG gold, only silver cos of LD's dominance in MS. The spotlight is slightly less on LCW.

Han, easy to say, difficult to do, each & every time they crash out, fingers are pointed at the players, at the foreign coach(the loyalty of a foreign coach is constantly questioned, even when they deliver results)...... you've read the recent drama.

What LCW is experiencing tooks years to build up, with recent help of sports psy. he's getting better at 'absorbing the pressure.'
This is what LCW attributed to his MO win in terms of mental strength.

Players are of different character, even if same coach, the approach may be different.

 

[eaglehelang]

I wouldn't want to speculate about "the wedding" unless it comes from the couple themselves. The last that I knew was that they are merely good friends unless I'm outdated!

Yes, you're outdated. Someone posted the link in either WMC or LCw thread.
After WMC's China open win, they openly admitted to their relationship in a CCTV5 interview. That intv also showed photos of WMC & LCW together, arms around each other's shoulder.

The wedding thingy came out in one of the China/HK press. LCW has an additional ring on his left hand, said to be engagement ring, when reporter asked WMC abt the ring, she blushed, face all red.

 

[badMania]

Snippets of JR's comments from internationalbadminton.org

Jonas Rasmussen nevertheless expressed his satisfaction after the game: “En route to the final, we’ve beaten the first, third and fifth seeds which is not bad at all. We just couldn’t add the second seeds to our list. The Indonesians played superbly when it mattered the most and all credit to them.”

 

[Loh]

Yes, you're outdated. Someone posted the link in either WMC or LCw thread.
After WMC's China open win, they openly admitted to their relationship in a CCTV5 interview. That intv also showed photos of WMC & LCW together, arms around each other's shoulder.

The wedding thingy came out in one of the China/HK press. LCW has an additional ring on his left hand, said to be engagement ring, when reporter asked WMC abt the ring, she blushed, face all red.

Then I must congratulate them and wish them well and certainly hope they could both win a medal at this year's Olympics. A gold for LCW would be an extremely good wedding present for WMC indeed!

 

[V3i HoN6]

LD also missed MO. KKK/TBH are going for AE, Swiss Open. Two points already covered vy zqloy & Chrisccc :

You need to read again on Chriscc's point.
As for zqloy point that they did this to protect TBH and what's the point of going to competition if they aren't fit, I totally dont get it.
What have they been through that they just start out fresh this year after a long break and + 2 games in Malaysia Open. Was it HK open that they last competed and how many games they played?

1) To protect the young TBH, who is buckling to the pressure. LCW took a couple of years to learn to cope. Works different for different people - TBH confidence already going down, lose more, confidence go down even more.

+ they got fatigued last year from participating in too many tourneys. Yes, yes one can argue Fu/Cai, Kido/Setiawan also participate in as many tourneys, but remember the intense criticism they will get each time they lose from government, media, fans. The vultures will come flying down in no time. So, no point participating if not 100% fit.

Almost the same thing from zzqloy.
I dont know but how skipping competitive games could protect the young TBH and let say after the "protection" like before WC, after skipping some SS yet they still failed to perform, confidence going even down.

Other than few newspaper pages, I don't think the criticism get to them unless they got the timea to read pages by pages in BC and of course after reading from their fan thread with 10 times more pages. Other than that, I don't really think this is relevant. When I walk into his path during the Malaysia Open, I see people shaking his hands asking his autograph, photos but none of them critics him for his bad performance at all. I doubt it even happen from other than his coach.
The fan never leave them or afraid of them losing. Losing is one thing but keep knocked out at early rounds by unseeded players is another thing.

God help them if they are not 100% fit by the time AE, TC and Olympic as they are not participating. "What's the point of participate if they are not 100% fit" quoting from zzqloy?

2) They dont need the ranking pts as much. LCW is goin for Korea, but he might not go for Swiss, the tourneys they choose not to go are different. LD didnt go for MO, he too can pick & choose tournaments.

They are not going there for the points, but for the on court experience, for the pressure of real tournaments, for experiencing as many pairs as they can. So they can avoid being caught with guard downs for the first time playing another Taiwan or Japanese pair alike.

3) Getting worse? Ppl forget so fast. After grounded 1st time, KKK/TBH won GP Gold Philipines Open, it's a 'small' achievement but sthing. After WC & Japan Open fiasco, they won Macau & Denmark Open.

Then what? they flopped in French open (Jap pairs, Tadashi Otsuka/Keita Masuda, QF) and China Open (unseeded Taiwan pairs this time, second round) and HK Open(Candra Wijaya/Tony Gunawan, DF).
Not to forget the one after HK open, just over last week.
Getting better?

I sure forget fast. Remind me of what happen before Philipines Open. Was it Sudirman Cup that lost to England pairs?
And then an quite satisfactory Semi final lost to CY/FHF in Semi final and another first round defeat again (Mohd Zakry/Mohd Fairuz) in Singapore Open. Only before that, it was all glory to them.

I hate to be like pemuda but aren't you seeing something wrong for all this?
They getting better and getting worse at the same time. (What am I saying?). My point is by this rate, the Olympic game will just hand it to luck and pure luck only.

 

[zqloy]

You need to read again on Chriscc's point.
As for zqloy point that they did this to protect TBH and what's the point of going to competition if they aren't fit, I totally dont get it.
What have they been through that they just start out fresh this year after a long break and + 2 games in Malaysia Open. Was it HK open that they last competed and how many games they played?


Almost the same thing from zzqloy.
I dont know but how skipping competitive games could protect the young TBH and let say after the "protection" like before WC, after skipping some SS yet they still failed to perform, confidence going even down.

Other than few newspaper pages, I don't think the criticism get to them unless they got the timea to read pages by pages in BC and of course after reading from their fan thread with 10 times more pages. Other than that, I don't really think this is relevant. When I walk into his path during the Malaysia Open, I see people shaking his hands asking his autograph, photos but none of them critics him for his bad performance at all. I doubt it even happen from other than his coach.
The fan never leave them or afraid of them losing. Losing is one thing but keep knocked out at early rounds by unseeded players is another thing.

God help them if they are not 100% fit by the time AE, TC and Olympic as they are not participating. "What's the point of participate if they are not 100% fit" quoting from zzqloy?



They are not going there for the points, but for the on court experience, for the pressure of real tournaments, for experiencing as many pairs as they can. So they can avoid being caught with guard downs for the first time playing another Taiwan or Japanese pair alike.


Then what? they flopped in French open (Jap pairs, Tadashi Otsuka/Keita Masuda, QF) and China Open (unseeded Taiwan pairs this time, second round) and HK Open(Candra Wijaya/Tony Gunawan, DF).
Not to forget the one after HK open, just over last week.
Getting better?

I sure forget fast. Remind me of what happen before Philipines Open. Was it Sudirman Cup that lost to England pairs?
And then an quite satisfactory Semi final lost to CY/FHF in Semi final and another first round defeat again (Mohd Zakry/Mohd Fairuz) in Singapore Open. Only before that, it was all glory to them.

I hate to be like pemuda but aren't you seeing something wrong for all this?
They getting better and getting worse at the same time. (What am I saying?). My point is by this rate, the Olympic game will just hand it to luck and pure luck only.

I believe what Rexy knows whats the best for them. TBH's problem is not fitness, its the confidence and the pressure issue, perhaps doing damage control is Rexy's priority right now.

 

[eaglehelang]

You need to read again on Chriscc's point.
As for zqloy point that they did this to protect TBH and what's the point of going to competition if they aren't fit, I totally dont get it.

The competition part is my point. As per intv with Rexy.

What have they been through that they just start out fresh this year after a long break and + 2 games in Malaysia Open. Was it HK open that they last competed and how many games they played?

Again, this is what Rexy said, KKK/TBH played 15 tourneys last year, they got fatigued, thus failures at France Open, China & HK Open. Therefore, Rexy's sending them to selected tourneys. + for 'quality training' at home.

Other than few newspaper pages, I don't think the criticism get to them unless they got the timea to read pages by pages in BC and of course after reading from their fan thread with 10 times more pages. Other than that, I don't really think this is relevant. When I walk into his path during the Malaysia Open, I see people shaking his hands asking his autograph, photos but none of them critics him for his bad performance at all. I doubt it even happen from other than his coach.

a) There's pressure from NSC and Sports Ministry (government) - "Badminton is our hope for gold." If not, why all the top Msia players(LCW, WMC, KKK/TBH) mention pressure as a factor. This pressure, has been there since Sept 2007, is definitely relevant.

b) Then why some of the BCers reported that fans booed at them during Rd 1 & Rd 2 match? KKK was effected by it to mention it in the press - of course, of course, they must overcome it lah & all that.
LCW took some years to get used to the pressure & still not 100% too.

c) Few newspaper?? It's on every major newspaper on all their losses & winnings (NST, The Star, Utusan M, BH, Harian Metro, Kosmo, Chinese newspapers), with predictions on their downfall, etc. Media plays a part in influencing public opinion


The fan never leave them or afraid of them losing. Losing is one thing but keep knocked out at early rounds by unseeded players is another thing.



They are not going there for the points, but for the on court experience, for the pressure of real tournaments, for experiencing as many pairs as they can. So they can avoid being caught with guard downs for the first time playing another Taiwan or Japanese pair alike.


I hate to be like pemuda but aren't you seeing something wrong for all this?
They getting better and getting worse at the same time. (What am I saying?). My point is by this rate, the Olympic game will just hand it to luck and pure luck only.

In short- They only partner 1 year, were supposed to be paired together after OG, partnership, experience is young. They rose too fast, not stable yet, it's too much to ask them to get OG gold. Kido/Setiawan have partnered 3 to 4 yrs, Fu/Cai 5 years.
Fu/Cai were at 2004 OG, lost in QF, both say they were not matured enuf.
LD in 2004 was out in 1st rd.

What I posted, which a few BCers responded, was what Rexy said in public. Yes, we fans might think different, same as some posted that LCW shouldnt go for so many tourneys -
Ultimately we are not the coach or decision makers. Whether we think whether something is wrong or not doesnt make a difference to what they decide to do.

 

[samuel882]

1) To protect the young TBH, who is buckling to the pressure. LCW took a couple of years to learn to cope. Works different for different people - TBH confidence already going down, lose more, confidence go down even more.

+ they got fatigued last year from participating in too many tourneys. Yes, yes one can argue Fu/Cai, Kido/Setiawan also participate in as many tourneys, but remember the intense criticism they will get each time they lose from government, media, fans. The vultures will come flying down in no time. So, no point participating if not 100% fit.

2) They dont need the ranking pts as much. LCW is goin for Korea, but he might not go for Swiss, the tourneys they choose not to go are different. LD didnt go for MO, he too can pick & choose tournaments.

3) Getting worse? Ppl forget so fast. After grounded 1st time, KKK/TBH won GP Gold Philipines Open, it's a 'small' achievement but sthing. After WC & Japan Open fiasco, they won Macau & Denmark Open.



Players are of different character, even if same coach, the approach may be different.

That was a very funny point of view, don't they?
1) Young Lads will never growth if they did not face much struggle in their life, Don't tell me wait till TBH become 26-28 then only realised : "Oh, I should have participate in more tournys and enjoy it . Now, my movements is damn slow and could not smash as much as before!"

2) LCW needs more ranking points to Qualify than Koo/Tan for OG? Not much Tournys left for OG Qualification. Do u think both of them will be rank outside top 16 before the Qualifying periods ended?

3) If that is the case, keep grounded them until they both feel comfortable to play. Or just go to defend that precious AE title in Birmingham then grounded again until Thomas Cup finals in MAY.