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Discussion in 'All England 2006' started by wl2172, Jan 22, 2006.
LYB is a military dictatorial superior, not surprise for his action.
Also, I think IBF needs to do something about this stupid serving rule. How can anyone tell if the birdie or racquet head is one inche above the waist line.
I can understand it is a valid call if the position is held too high and too obvious (something like more than 2 inches above). But for cases where its not so obvious and its up to the lines man to judge......I would argue for it.
Penalizing a player 6 times is a big humiliation to BAM. It sends out the message "hey BAM, you got to teach your boys how to serve right before you come to play here" <img>
After all, how much difference does it make if a player is slightly above the legal line......this is a sports, not supreme court. If AE organizer wants to play legal matters, learn high tech equipments and get video cameras instead.....like what the NFL does "Undisputable video evidence".
Come to think of it, I kinda agree. It also gives advantage to the taller person. However, I still think that:
1. the handle of the racket should be higher than where the shuttle is struck (or the racquet head)
2. the shuttle must go in an upward trajectory.
In the new point-a-rally scoring system, the serve is so important. The pressure is all on the server. I think we should consider changing the rules to even out the disadvantage to the server. I think points should be scored mostly during rallies and less dependant on serves. Maybe
3. take out the long service line.
But these are fundamental changes. If we cannot even accept non-fundamental changes(*) like scoring, then there is no hope for these suggestions.
* Non-fundamental changes are changes which should not affect your play. You should always try to win a rally whether you serve or you receive.
Read in the newspaper that malaysian team has sent a protest to the organizer.But why couldn't they protest during the match?Seems that this has affected LWW/CTF's concentration in the final as well and they couldn't play true to their ability.
Protesting is pointless if people are already prejudiced againts you. They will only turn a deaf ear or make up some silly excuses. The only way to combat this problem is to perform well and beat your opponents without any doubt. Gan should have blocked this out of him and carried on with his game, they would have won in that case as Abdul was very calm in contrast.
ahaa, yes, that should be the way, i couldn't more agree on that. don't let "bad" call affects your game so much.
Yes enough said. That must mean he agreed with the call and the service was bad.
Yes PURE speculation. The fact that you even bring it up speaks for itself
It is never fun to see the pair you are cheering for losing but a least try to be dignified in defeat...
I personally think Jens and Martin played fantastic in the two last matches (except 1st part of the 1st game in the semifinal and 2nd part of the 2nd game in the final). Maybe that has something to do with the fact that they won
Lets not forget that Jens and Martin for the past 18 months have ranked either 1 or 2 in the world. It is no shame to lose to such a pair.
You can say all you want, the pair you were cheering won. Also, I am not taking anything away from Jens/Martin, they are brilliant and consistent as far as I am concerned. However, please see from our point of view as well. I dont think you will be singing this song if the danes were on the receiving end since 2004. To happen twice is not good at all.
Dignified.....stop patronising us.
You haven't explained my argument yet.....why wasn't Gan caught in the FIRST 4 rounds of the tournament? Were all the previous service umpires wrong?
Please explain....if you cannot, don't bother replying. I want constructive arguments.
I'm pretty certain that he was faulted for not having the racket head below the hand. The service judge indicated the fault by pointing his hand in an upward direction, and later when Gan queried the decision the service judge clearly motiined that he was 'coming over the top'. Replays on the screen were not conclusive, but it certainly was very close.
I have no idea why it was wasn't brought up earlier in the tournament though.
Anyway the future does look bright for Malaysian MD. Rexy's influence is already noticeable. Yap Kim Hock certainly seemed quite happy about it when we were talking to him in the Sports Bar on Broad St on Saturday night!
The service rules have been in place for a long time. It applies to everybody tall or short.
Granted that tall players appear to have an advantage, however, we have also seen how even short players can also execute effortless 'perfect' serves that their tall opponents cannot take adavantage of!
I feel that coaches may have taken this crucial aspect of the game for granted for too long. The Gan case is not an isolated one as we have seen time and again 'fault service' being called on other international players as well. It is high time that they pay more attention to the technicalities of the serve so that their players will not have to suffer under the bright lights in international tournaments and have their confidence shattered during crucial matches.
Players will not be able to judge themselves whether they are doing the serve correctly, so coaches and trainers must tell and warn them if there is any doubt of this in training. Better still have their serves shown on pics or videos. In an eagerness to take full advantage of striking the shuttle at a higher height so that the serve is flatter and the time take to reach the opponent's side shorter, there is always the danger that the contact point is higher than waist level and the racket is held higher than the hand holding it.
So please don't blame the service judge, who are normally neutral. Blame the players and their coaches for not doing a good job themselves.
OK, calm down now.
Umpiring and judging is supposed to be neutral and consistent. Unfortunately, that is impossible since us poor humans have to do the job. In general, I would say that there is a high number of questionable serves that don't get faulted. Some service judges are more lax than others. Some are perhaps too strict. This is something that all players know, and have to learn to handle.
Assuming that Gan's serves were indeed illegal (which I don't know), it is natural to wonder why he wasn't faulted earlier on. But one could also argue that he was lucky to get as far as the semi before being faulted.
Saying that the umpires and judges are biased is a bit strong. They can be accused of being inconsistent, as the same individuals can't judge or umpire every match. That a British service judge would be biased towards a Danish pair just doesn't make sense.
Isn't it is also possible that Gan, in his serve, was pressed to the limit against the Danes? Gan is not a very experienced player yet, and certainly Jens is one of the tallest (if not the tallest) players on the tour. If a player is prone to service errors, having a 2 meter guy hanging on the net isn't going to help.
I am a Malaysian and when Gan was faulted five or six times, I was thinking that the service jugde was bias. Nervertheless, I kept on telling myself that the service judge is neutral and would not favour any party or would not pick on Gan if his serves were good.
But Rexy, our new doubles coach, stated that AE umpires, service judges or linemen tend to pick on players from Asia! I was shocked to hear this especially when it came from Rexy, a pro player and coach. Rexy was actually commenting on RTM1 after LWW/CTK finals. He said that he found the umpire and service jugde treated Gan/Zakry unfairly. He even went on to say that during his playing days which he had won 2 AE titles, he suffered the same unfair treatments!
Who knows? Maybe he is just sour.
I think that is very possible that Gan was affected somehow in the final and therefore served in a marginally different manner than in previous matches.
That would also explain why he wasn't faulted (or not faulted to the same extent) in previous games.
I've had a similar thing happen to my serve. Unwillingly, the head of the racket starts pointing upwards more than it should, when I have the notion that the serve is not working - that the opponent is "killing" it too easily. Then I want the serve to be more flat.. and if it is still not working.. well.. then I start changing the service movement just a bit..
Not that I am like the pros, but the pros are human like the rest of us, so I am guessing that it could be an explanation that Gan was under more pressure, was more nervous, in the finals than in the previous games, and that this has affected his serve.
Serving rule is impossible to enforce?
I think almost everyone in modern game serves against the rule (above waist) - however, I also think it is utterly difficult for the judge to make a proper call. Where can you see the "waist line" anyway, hidden under a long shirt? I don't envy the serve judges at all.
I have watched many games live and from video, and rarely have I seen a short serve that I could honestly call correct...
It is a bit like the walk races in athletics where everybody is breaking the rule "one foot must touch the ground at all times". Everybody. The judges single out a few in each race, since it is impossible to disqualify all the competitors...
Maybe something should be done to the serving rule... but what?
How should I be able to explain why he wasn't faulted earlier in the tournament when I didn't see these matches?
I can only speculate which is what you are doing too IMHO
Maybe the service judges were less strict in Gans/Zakrys first matches and they let him get away with it.
Maybe his service was ok in their first matches but in the semifinal they were under such tremendous pressure that he just crumbled. They are after all still a young and inexperienced pair.
I cannot boast about being a "certified badminton coach", but I did hear the Danish commentators (one of the Poul-Erik Hoyer Larsen) saying that the racquet head was not pointing down when Gan served.
Sure they may be biased but so are you, so are we all.
After seeing the MD semi's In my opinion Jens/Martin would have lost the first game, if Gan's serves hadn't been judged the way they were. The Malaysians really put some pressure to Jens/Martins backhand side in the beginning of the first game. However around 5-13 the danes changed their tactics and really got hold on their backhand side defense, which changed their luck.
About serving errors: The serving situation is crucial in MD, and most players serve on the edge of the "not above the waist" rule. But that serve error is quite hard to spot especially when the server leans forward (very difficult to point out the location of the lowest rip.
The other serve error is much easier to call, as the racquet and the hand is visible at all times. In Gan's case his racquet was almost horizontal (I saw the game on national danish television, and in most of the cases the racquet's head wasn't clearly below the hand). Sitting 3 m away I guess the serving judge would have a better view than all off us.
Well, haven't seen Gan serve before, so I will not comment on why he wasn't faulted before the semi's. But if you are pushing your serves to the limit, you should have a "safe" serve to fall back to. If you are faulted once, you can expect to be faulted again if you don't respond (in this case by raising your hand or lowering your racquet)
i am not surprised that the coach would say that for their players, the same thing happened to INA coach, i read from the news that after Candra/Sigit lost to CTF/LWW, the INA coach said that the service judge also faulted Candra's service 6 times.
Ok, i conclude that AE jugdes are not prejudice against Asian players then but can you show us the article where the INA coach said that. I could not cite Rexy's cause it was said orally but it was on national TV.
I watched the semi on tv, I would agree that the services WERE faults, the racket head is clearly level with the hand, however the fact that they had played through the other rounds and not been faulted shows the inconsistency in service judging. I noted many other fault serves not called while I was there, many service judges seem to take a few looks at a serve before calling a fault and are reluctant to fault every time.
Where the Malaysians were clearly disadvantaged was in the way the Danes were allowed to dominate the speed of the game, not changing the shuttle, telling the malaysians to be quiet, wasting time when they were coming back etc, all helped them to break the malaysian concentration and win the first end