Medical timeout and gamesmanship

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by Justin L, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    You're obsessed with Lin Dan's 'cold water', I'd suggest you better drink some of it to get rid of the curse on you. There's so much about Lin Dan and yet that cold water incident bothers you disproportionately like an addiction, a phobia, nay, an obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD).
     
  2. Baddyforall

    Baddyforall Regular Member

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    I thought the point of discussion here is medical time out. I wonder how people tend to forget a player who is specialist in it. Wang shixian will be a master in case of delaying tactics .

    I am not a fan of marin either. She got card for what she deserves. Even shixian got it. Even Sun yu got it. But i am not talking about it. I wanted to point it out, since you mentioned indian fans were over judgemental . I must say one thing. Some of the forum members here even mentioned that Saina Nehwal has to return the medal back !. Over childish perhaps. That case is over.

    The example i showed to you is to prove chinese players' medical timeout is not always necessary to be true. If you believe in it, you can understand what i am trying to say.

    I wonder what made @JustinL to throw tantrums on me for showing what happened really. Really amazing.
     
  3. Baddyforall

    Baddyforall Regular Member

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    Did i say Marin's outburst accepted to me? .

    Oh oh oh. Really !. I rest my case here. Because throwing tantrums is not my forte.

    "your super eyes" - Personal attacks is not permitted i think.

    Some times truth pains. That is life.

    I never ever watch marin's matches unless it is involved with an indian player. i read some of the forum members' views on that particular match involving Sunyu vs Marin @ Dubai. So, i watched some of trailing end of that video. So, it is clear to anybody who watch it. And i said it.

     
  4. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    i know that match very well, no need to show me. There is the umpire in charge and he's talked to Sun Yu briefly and also to Marin to let him do his job. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill and picking on CHN players. Injury is a serious matter, no player can be too careful about it, and I noticed you've been repeatedly talking about the IND players' injuries at length. Enough said.
     
  5. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    @Baddyforall @Justin L

    I note for that match Sun Yu also received the yellow card. Interesting match. I hadn't seen that match before. And I note a player tries to get the umpire to give another player another card (in football, this is taken as very bad behaviour and can nearly start a riot!).

    The point of me bringing up the Olympic bronze and other examples was not to belittle anybody but to show the ambiguity between audience diagnosed feigning injury and actual serious injury.

    What I don't agree with is if injury is feigned, the rest of the team is tarred with the same brush. Hence, my statement that the sooner players enter as independents (providing money in the game can support it), the better it is overall for the game.
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    @Justin L @Baddyforall

    The point I am trying to make is that audience diagnosed injuries (or non-injuries) can be very difficult to get right. Well, just plainly wrong and if the audience is wrong with a false accusation, don't they feel embarassed about double standards? I also think that tarring a nation's players is not good. Fair enough if it is an individual player feigning injury. But a nation?
     
  7. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Exactly. Lots of double standard and hypocrisies.The audience wants to play judge, jury and executioner, often on nationalistic grounds, forgetting all the players are individuals in and of themselves.

    And when a player is taken out of the circuit by injury, the most anybody can do is pay lip service, whilst for the player concerned it may be the end of their career.

    I mean let's cut them some slack, they are devoting the best years of their lives to a sport we love, and most of them end up with next to nothing after retirement, only sweet and bad memories and a fair bit of regrets. The really successful ones who make it big are few and far between we can count them on the fingers of two hands.
     
  8. GingerCorslette

    GingerCorslette Regular Member

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    Like someone has already said, we only know as far as what we get from the players, fake or not. This applies to every possible way of delaying: injury complaints, ask to change, ask to add more grip powder, the floor mopping (some players can control this), tell the umpire that someone has a flash on in he crowd, etc.

    On a side note, I think it would be a good idea if they treat the yellow cards like NBA's technical fouls: when a player accumulates up to a certain number they will be punished in some way. I think in the NBA, 16 technicals and you're suspended for one game. A fine could do in the BWF.
     
  9. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I repeat, the blatant double standard and barefaced hypocrisies of some butt-hurt self-righteous posters here can be obnoxious, loathsome. Either they have short memories or conveniently pretend not to know many non-CHN players, including some of their own kind are guilty of 'faking' injuries and calling for medical timeouts, eg removing their shoes and socks to check for possible injury, asking for analgesic sprays for muscle sprains, wanting to have their sports bandages, tapes and strappings replaced or reapplied, etc, etc.

    Do I have to name names or help you recall who from your nationalities did the aforementioned ? Go look at yourselves in the mirror and their images will appear much to your consternation. Shameless. The pot calling the kettle black. Again, making a mountain out of a molehill. A storm in a teacup.
     
  10. nilesh123

    nilesh123 Regular Member

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    Flattered but m not sure about that.
    I've been previously accused of being "extreme-nationalist" and have been pulled in some rubbish banters in the near past. I take them as compliments :p
     
  11. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    If , apart from injury timeouts, tactical delays or genuine requests like those you mentioned, such as asking to change the shuttle, apply grip powder, have the floor mopped, pointing out someone in the crowd using flash, re-tie shoelaces, to towel down their excessive sweat - are to be viewed negatively, suspiciously and therefore to be restricted or threatened with a yellow card, don't you think the players will feel unnecessarily constrained, be upset, or be unduly affected in their concentration as to change the course of the game ? I can imagine temperamental types like Viktor being irritated enough or agitated as to blow their tops.

    I mean we have to give some allowance for the different personalities and cultural traits of the various players. I'd rather err on the side of tolerance, be a bit lenient, and live and let live.
     
  12. Pirayeba67

    Pirayeba67 Regular Member

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  13. Woffle

    Woffle Regular Member

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    @Justin L , no need to stoop to the level of some of the commentators in this thread. Some people you just can't reason with.

    This is an issue in many sports, in team sports such as NBA/NFL in the USA, coaches have basically unilateral right to call timeouts, and a lot of the time it is done precisely to mess with the momentum of the opposing team. For example, anyone who watches the NFL will know of a practice called 'icing the kicker,' i.e. right when the opposing team is going to kick a field goal (often in a high-leverage situation), the coach will call a timeout to mess with the kicker mentally.

    In tennis you can look at the 2013 Australian Open WS semifinal between Azarenka and Sloane Stephens. Even someone as squeaky clean as Roger Federer was accused of manipulating a bathroom break and he basically admitted as much, in my view, saying:

    > "When the sun comes from the side, the ball seems half the size and is just hard to hit,’’ Federer said that day. “I never take toilet breaks, but I thought ‘Why not?'"

    Someone no less than Novak Djokovic has a 'bad reputation' for his liberal use of injury timeouts. And in tennis the injury timeout is close to 10-15 minutes. So, I think if tennis fans can survive the use of injury timeouts without exploding into name-calling and nation-baiting, then we probably can too. Realize that little things to break the rhythm of an opponent are an established practice in everysport, and complain less about things that don't matter (and more about things that matter, if any).
     
  14. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Right, thanks. Your post is illuminating about other sports timeouts.

    It calls to mind what Morten Frost in recent years during one of the matches he commentated once said, do anything allowed within the rules to break your opponent's rhythm. And here we're debating on possible injury timeouts when often the players themselves are not aware how serious their initial reaction to injury could be until some time later but during the match, if a player feel well enough to carry on, s/he usually would and it never crosses their mind to 'fake' it.
     
    #54 Justin L, Apr 15, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  15. gelopisan

    gelopisan Regular Member

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    An extreme nationalist? From your posts I think you're not one. I hope you're not tho :/ thats too silly, esp in sports. Even a genius like Einstein sees nationalism as measles of mankind.
    This post may get deleted :)
     
  16. nilesh123

    nilesh123 Regular Member

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    hahaha I guess that too, all the irrelevant posts are getting deleted this days. Our Mods in CM mode :p
     
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  17. GingerCorslette

    GingerCorslette Regular Member

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    I meant that these delaying tactics, like the injury complaints already debated previously, are or can be valid and sound. And whether they're in good faith is only to the knowledge of the players. :p
     
  18. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Name them. Give specific examples. Best if you can upload video. But if you can't provide the video, then name them in the specific match.
     
  19. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    What do you mean by 'tarring a nation s players'?
    When you give the example of Marin, are Spain's other players tarred? When SunYu s example was shared, are CHN s other players tarred? Or for that matter when the young CHN WD s behaviour was highlighted, does it tar CHN MD?
    Do I see CHN XD LK/HYQ or CHN MD Li /Liu in the same light? Absolutely not. These two CHN XD and MD are true champions. They have self confidence, they are businesslike and know they can get the job done. They are so good they don't have to resort to faking.
    .
     
  20. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Ask and you shall receive. :) I think the language is quite clear from the following passage that the nation players are tarred with the same brush..

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...d-quarterfinal-11th-14th-april.170740/page-28
    And for your information, my personal feeling is it is about the player. So, I don't say all Spanish players are like Marin (to quote a general example). That example is to show that double standards are applied which shows the prejudice and bias of that writer.
     
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