Misbun: I will go if I have to

Discussion in 'Olympics ATHENS 2004' started by jaclyn, Aug 20, 2004.

  1. seven

    seven New Member

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    I don't think England football team is a good example to follow, they keep losing all the important matches! :p (this has been the case for years and years)
     
  2. liverpool

    liverpool Regular Member

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    Misbun resignation....He cannot shoulder all the responsibilities...Very preculiar to sport in Malaysia. It is always change of players and coaches but never the administrator. The most glaring is Malaysian Football. For all the non Malaysian...we have nearly 10 coaches or MORE ( lost count)but the helm remains the same for the past twenty years!!! In addition, not a single stadium in UK can match our National Football stadium at Bukit Jalil in terms of capacity and infra structure!!!

    As for badminton in Malaysia we need more fund and a bigger talent pool. Except for Koo Kien Keat our back up at Bukit Jalil does not seems to be heading any where. The next up and coming world beater only coming to puberty!!! A 12 years old player from Selangor name Zulfaldi. I guess the trainees at this elite school stop improving the moment they are selected. No pressure as there is not much competition from others. Thus we need more elite center in every state.

    Get the parent involve by providing them with Level One coaching cert. Send one ex-national trainee to every district where his responsibilities include coaching teachers and aspiring coaches , scouting for BAM , training players, and organizing age group tournament. Thus all our ex national players knew there is a job waiting for them in collaboration with Ministry of Education and National Sport Council which will foot their wages.

    Lastly, am I dreaming!!! I hope to see an Olympic champion in badminton from Malaysia.
     
  3. FEND.

    FEND. Regular Member

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    mmm. In response to taneepeek. : I don't think they bought Henry when he was at his best, neither did they buy Vieira when he was at his best, Ashley cole was from the youth system, Ljungberg was an unknown before he came to Arsenal, Nicolas Anelka also before he left and the list goes on. What I am pointing out here is that with a proper systematic scheme, we can mine out players better than the ones we have no only in terms of badminton or football but other sports. I question the dedication of our players at times or rather our national athletes. Are they there rather for the free housing, sponsorship free pay checks by Maybank and so on.. (You know who you are). Do you see them training as hard as they should be? maybe harder maybe less we cannot tell. But one thing remains clear, Malaysia has not won any medals in the current olympics. Our future looks so dim that we need the explosion of an Atom Bomb before we can see the light.

    Wenger had a proper system at Arsenal FC. He knew what was lacking, saw the problem and fixed every aspect of it. In our country malaysia, do we see proper dietician monitering what our players eat? A physio to keep track of our players fitness? No we do not. We can actually set up sophisticated systems, everything was neatly planned out. Here however we do not see it. There was a youth system. Do we see a proper youth system here in Malaysia? If so please enlighten me. When I mean proper I mean 'Specified for ages under _____ and schemes aka study in the morning at a proper school and train badminton in the afternoon.

    If you want an example of a fantastic youth system, look no further than Ajax FC of Holland. They CHURN OUT yes CHURN OUT top class players at 21 who ARE SUPERB players capable of first team competitive football. Want some names? Dennis Bergkamp, Kluivert, Van Der Vaart, Van Der Meyde, Christian Chivu, Johan Cryuff (if i'm not mistaken) and many others.

    Don't tell me they had a time machien and bought them from the future or something.

    The England football team? They do not have the luxury of training everyday unlike our malaysian national badminton team do they? They are just picked on their performance at club level, but you have to question why some of them are there, aka Owen, Heskey ? But here in Malaysia our national players train together don't they? 1 coach can't teach all the strokes. 1 coach can't have all the international experience. These coaches here only teach what they know, and from what I see, what they know is not that much. Malaysia should go out and get more foreign coaches to better ourselves. Start swallowing whatever pride is left (almost none) and go out there and get someone who can shed enlightenment on our players.

    When I mean coach I am not saying only the head coach, there should be someone to do specific drills with that person, a tactician, analyst, physio etc.

    Right now that's all I've got to say. My brain is fine tuned for studying chemistry now.

    Will post back after replies to this topic

    Cheers
     
  4. TrunkZ69

    TrunkZ69 Regular Member

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    Fend , you complain about the lack of coaches correct?
    But doesn't in the article Misbun state that he asked for more coaches, but BAM denied his request? I'm pretty sure he's not knowledgable enough to do all the things you think they need. You need a certain ammount of funding for all of that, and from the looks of it, BAM isn't willing to give that funding out. Finger pointing at Misbun won't really help.
     
  5. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    1) IMHO with the exeption of the olympics............ the reasonable performance in the Thomas cup.......... everything was nice and peachy (but not that great) for malaysian badminton this past year (2003-2004). couple of semifinals, finals, and open champions.

    2) you want to compare malaysia to england? when england or a club wins something everybody comes out and celebrate. in malaysia what do you see? almost nothing. but when we lose our players and coaches get stoned by the public. im a malaysian. and right now with this kind of attitude im seeing in malaysia........... im not the proudest man alive.

    3) china and indonesia do not practice anywhere near the stuff that you have mentioned. still world beaters year after year.

    4) i do agree about 1 thing you have said........ there are a whole lot of freebies in malaysia. they enjoy free programs set up to develop the sport in malaysia cause its free. charge them a cent and see how many stays. where do all talent go to after highschool education? they run off to further their education. there goes the millions of dollars (ringgit) the govt spent (wasted).
    they also can not use the excuse that ther is no future/job security/income in sport for the reason there is none is because they themselves are not willing to pay, then who should be willing to pay them. why cant major brands/companies support these atheletes? because everyone is buying pirated goods/fakes that transfer profits to shadow companies that do not give back to the community/country.

    5) your high regard for foreign/western coaches without any respect for the wealth of knowledge and specialition possesed by our own country is known to me as the 'post colonization syndrome/mentality'. and yes there are many of you in malaysia.

    :mad: right back at you Malaysia!
     
  6. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    In The End It Is The Player Himself

    As with many things, one has to find a scapegoat for one's loss or disappointment.

    I think, under the circumstances, Misbun has done his best as coach. He has warned the BAM of certain shortcomings but no relief was offered. The support was lacking, so it seemed. So he and Yap soldiered on as best as they could. There were certainly improvement on their trainees' performance, particularly Lee Chong Wei and the veteran doubles of Choong/Lee as they have displayed in recent IBF tournaments. Some may disagree, but I thought they have done relatively well compared with before. But as a team, they were not able to shine, as in the TC. It was most unfortunate and so Misbun has now to take the blame as a gentleman.

    As stated by some, technical-wise, there is little difference among Malaysia's best compared with those of China, Denmark, Indonesia or South Korea. Then why was it that Malaysian players could not even garner a single medal in badminton?

    It all boils down to the form of the player on his day of competition. There is no reason why on a good day a Malaysian cannot beat Taufik or Shon or Sony or Boonsak! It is of no use trying to buy Taufik's services because Malaysia already posseses such calibre.

    Just throw your mind back a few months ago and picture the unhealthy state of affairs of Indonesian badminton, of Taufik's and their doubles' yo-yo performance. This has necessitated an almost complete revamp of the training programme for Indonesia's national players with a seeminly 'tough' Icuk at the helm. Any world-class player can fall into a slump suddenly and fail to recover in time for the big stage! Even in this particular Athens Olympics, we have witnessed upsets upon upsets. Who would have thought that super Lin Dan would be the first World No. 1 victim to fall in the first round to unseeded Ronald Susilo? And there were many other examples along the way.

    So, there is a limit to what the authorities can do for a player. You may have the best facilities, the best coach (not necessarily foreign coaches are the best for Malaysia has some of them and yet could not always deliver), to help you train better, but in the end, it is the player himself who will face the final test. What is the player made of, particularly his mental makeup?

    The confluence of ability, fitness, talent, form and luck will have to come into play in the final analysis. And all of these point to the player in question in the most crucial moment of his performance.

    The player has to answer for himself in the end and please don't blame the coach! ;)
     
  7. FEND.

    FEND. Regular Member

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    Funding should be the job of the BAM. From what I look at it right now, it is as if they do not support our players. If they did our players would have better 'stuff' to train with. If they also had been more commmitted. Why keep misbun there. -.-

    Misbun I feel does not keep up. If he had asked for more coaches, maybe all he said was, 'Look here, I want more coaches to train my players.' BAM would say, 'Uhh right. Can't you do it yourself?' Misbun, 'Yea I guess you're right' Do you think he gave proper documentation? I do not think so. Did he have an efficient system in the works? No. As far as I know malaysian badminton, I spoke to Kwan Yoke Meng once when he came to Brunei. He said in the 90's during Foo Kok Keong's time and stuff, they had a chinese coach who specifically taught the basics. Footwork and stuff. Why do you think the chinese's footwork is bloody good? If I'm not mistaken he also said that this chinese coach after coaching malaysia went to Indonesia where Mia Audina was scouted and trained.

    So it's down to this. Malaysian mentality. 2: BAM needs to listen to advice. Not live in their fantasy land when we won the Thomas Cup in 1992. Misbun definitely must go. I do not see any progress in Malaysian Badminton. More of a backwards kinda of thing. If we had progress why hasn't our womens players improved? Why has it stayed stagnent or rather outdated?

    mmm.

    P.S Yong Hock Kin gave me his shirt (unused, only has malaysia as the name, no player name but it has proton sponsorship) no signature. He gave me when he came with Kwan Yoke ming and stuff during the Brunei Grand Prix in 1999 if I'm not mistaken.
     
  8. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    you are being too ideal. for most of your argument is very rethoric.

    show me proof that malaysian badminton is going downhill.

    if saying the malaysian team fared badly in the olympics should cost Misbun his job........... then Lin Dan should very much hang up his racquet as well.

    what is your point about the YHK t shirt?
     
  9. FEND.

    FEND. Regular Member

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    With respect to your statement. On point 5, our wealth and knowledge + specialisation is almost nothing compared to the rest of the world. When I mean rest of the world, I do not mean the West. I am talking of Japan, Korea, China, SINGPOARE and stuff. NO ONE IN THE WORLD CAN SURVIVE BEING A GENERALIST. Believe me I know. If you want to know why it's the same principle as it is in Economics. I would not go and touch on it now. If we are so good, why have we had to play catch up in terms of technology? Better education? Infrastructure? International Trade? Malaysia is not a country full of what I would term 'pro' people. However we do have people who can be 'pro.' However our people here do not even know how to get there. Want an example? Intel. Nvidia. ATI. AMD. IBM. Microsoft. Do you possibly think that we would've invented all these first? No history has shown it. Our way of laid back thinking and as mahathir calls something like 'kais pagi makan pagi, kais malam makan malam' english translation : work morning eat in the morning, work at night eat at night, but the meaning is clear. We only work just to satisfy our immediate wants. We do not seem to care about progress as the rest of the world.

    This does not only apply to sports in our country but rather the other parts like our economy and stuff. Without outside help, we would be stuck in a padigram which will limit us and push us back into the stone age. Unless Malaysia opens up to the new ideas, we will be what the malays call 'seperti katak di bawah tempurong' which means like a frog under an empty half coconut shell. Meaning : One who is narrow minded. As the frog only sees so little, it thinks only so little. Do you think also that we would be able to launch measat the satelite into orbit? Without russian technology? Hell no.

    Same goes with our country. Without innovators like Mahathir we would be almost no where. Who would've heard bout malaysia?

    We can only do so much for our sports in malaysia. if we want to improve the only way is to get some new faces in to share new ideas. What's wrong with accepting other ideas especially if those ideas are good ones?

    mmm.
     
  10. FEND.

    FEND. Regular Member

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    in the moment kind of thing.
     
  11. FEND.

    FEND. Regular Member

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    I still do not see the superiority of Malaysian badminton as I used to watch on TV when I was younger. Last time the words Malaysia Badminton struck FEAR INTO THE HEARTS OF THEIR OPPONENTS. NOW, it's just like a small puppy who doesn't even have its first teeth barking as loud as it's could.

    You know what I mean. When we say WCH vs TH. WHo do you honestly think first to win? Even though TH is lower rank than WCH we all persume first that TH will win. What bout mens doubles? CTH & LWW. Wow they got no 1. Great, have they won much this year? mmm Malaysia Open err mmm. guess not. When we mention Jonas / Lars we expect them to win almost easily. But ours, it's like I do not have faith in them to win anything.
     
  12. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    FEND

    I'm confused! :confused: For you sounded more like a Malaysian thatn a Bruneian!

    Jug8man

    Please give FEND a chance to have some leeway. If he admires Yong and feels happy about receiving his shirt, let it be, esp when he is supposed to be studying for his exam now.

    Cheers! ;)
     
  13. FEND.

    FEND. Regular Member

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    Loh, if you want to know why I'm more of a malaysian well it's because I am [​IMG]. Malaysian Chinese, born in Selangor, mom from malacca, dad from pahang. They came to brunei for job opportunities around 20 - 23 years back. SInce then I've been living here all my life, but have been patriotic to malaysia. I go back to Malaysia every year without fail, as there's no place like home.
     
  14. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    if you can show misbun 1/2 the respect you gave Tun Dr Mahatir, we would not be having this difference in opinion. you are proud of one, but you shoot down another. im not saying misbun has contributed as much as TDM but the effort put in should be appreciated, supported, and not trampled down on.

    there's nothing wrong about looking for outside speciality. we malaysian have been doing this for years have you not noticed. so much for the hooohaaaa of foreign expertise. park JB, china coaches, etc and they get paid sickeningly too much compared to what the local, equaly capabled counterparts. do you know how much this outflow of currency hurts our economy. especially if these 'foreign experts' turn out to be nothing else but a 'white elephant'.

    you have confused the definition of specialization. since Malaysia (china, indonesia and others) are not specialized in tech, it is only obvious that we play catch up with the rest. but if we are specialized in something (like lets say to a great degree badminton) why should we play catch up with other countries that have less success or about the same only. the notion of sharing knowledge is always welcomed of course.

    european countries (unless you havent noticed) have been doing catching up in badminton with countries like Malaysia and Indonesia for the past 20+ (and are succeding well) years and what does Malaysia do? they hire Morten Frost and pay him a sick-sick amount. how does that make you feel about your value as a malaysian compared to the great foreigners? i have no bone to pick with morten, i think he is a great player in his time but what great wonder did he do for malaysia? does the benefit of him being in malaysia justify the fee he received? what incredible credentials did he have as a coach to be begged to come to malaysia? what superb/monumental/great achievement did he have since then till now as a coach that justifies the belittlement/beminisculement of his malaysian counterparts?

    you know the answer.
     
  15. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    ok. i take your advice. i was just asking about the shirt. no problem with it.

    go read your books boy! :D (joke)
     
  16. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    It looks like looking for scapegoat fever is upon us. First, it was Indonesia when they lost the Thomas Cup. The Chinese will now find some one to blame for letting the biggest prize-MS-slip away. Perhaps one or more coaches for each player, one for technical skills, another for fitness, yet another for tactics, and maybe another for the mental side? The Malaysian camp is now in turmoil, and everyone is so sure its all Misbun's fault. Or is it? Would you sing the same tune if either WCH or LCW had won a gold or silver? Sometimes, extreme disappointment can colour our judgement. How do you think the Koreans feel about letting a sure thing-XD-slip away? Some may say there must be a conspiracy. Why don't we look at the Danes? Are they blaming all and sundry for their failure?
    If Malaysia were to implement all Fend's suggestions, do you really think it would make any difference? Would hiring foreign coaches help? If we think so, then we are coming back one full circle. Nothing is worse than to offer and implement suggestions in the heat of the debacle. Cool down first. Then and only then do you do a post-mortem, and come up with suggestions. :cool:
     
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Federer does not have a coach at the moment. That is true. However, unfortunately, he is the exception.

    Just watched the tabletennis - players have their coaches at courtside.

    Well, in the end, all I can say is that it would not be right to make Misbun be the political scapegoat for the shortcomings of the administration. The administration is willing to make high level and famous appointments but there seems to be a lack of support. Morten Frost left. Park JB found himself doing lots of administrative work rather than being with players (or was it the the other way round with Frost doing less coaching?). Indra said the structure had to change and got booted out.............if Misbun goes, then one has to look at more underlying and fundamental problems.

    If I were Misbun, the fallout wouldn't affect me as there is the option of going back to NM and without the political burden. But as a M'sian, Misbun would be proud to lead the national team.....just remember, the BAM came looking for him!
     
  18. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    hmmmmmmmm wise words. signs of an experienced character/individual. you must have weathered through a few rough storms?
     
  19. Wizbit

    Wizbit Regular Member

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    Yes we are moaning about the same things, going round and round in circles. The same can be said about the British, no new talent blah blah blah, even though the Mixed is doing quite well...

    Maybe we need to see an injection of funds into Badminton to see any changes.

    I hear that Malaysian badminton players have lots of incentives, but if you take away these, then whos going to want to put the effort into it? In this day and age, "You can't buy everything with money, but with no money you can't buy anything!" The Danes are pretty lucky, as some of their star players could have flocked to another sport, namely football (soccer to you people)

    Badminton must be the most minor majority sport, if there is such a thing!
     
  20. Wizbit

    Wizbit Regular Member

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    Either way you look at it, Badminto is a major minor sport, or minor major sport.



     

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