NEW: Fixed Height Experiment for Service

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by CantSmashThis, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    If you believe his FB info, Viktor is experimenting with a forehand serve:


    Is that all part of the show or is there any sign that a 1.15 m forehand serve might be better than a 1.15 m backhand serve?
     
  2. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Serving from behind the line, like tennis, has some advantages. But I think we need a few more rules for it to work.

    (1) Both feet must be firmly on the grounds if you are smashing. No jumping allowed.

    (2) Your shuttle must fall within the short service line and the double long service line on the opposite side of course. If the shuttle touches the net, it should be a let.

    (3) Each side has two serves. If you win the first serve, you can serve a second. If you lose the first serve, your opponent will then serve. Whether your side win or lose the second serve, your opponent will serve after your second serve.

    If the above won't work, how about this?

    (A) Everybody must serve long and high with forehand from behind the back line. No smashing allowed.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    With all due respect, but that's just complete and utter nonsense. Why would you simply copy a tennis serve?
     
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  4. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Because badminton's current service rule doesn't work. Even with the new 115cm rule, it is still problematic.

    Tennis and volleyball serve from behind the back lines. It works out much better than ours.
     
  5. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    I disagree. Completely. How do you define "doesn't work"?

    Are there any other BC'ers around who share this opinion?
     
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  6. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    By "current service rule", I meant the above-the-waist and not-pointing-in-an-upward-direction rules!

    BWF is experimenting with the new 115cm rule. I guess that implies the current rule doesn't work, or at least problematic.

    As for the new 115cm rule, taller players like Viktor would complain about it. Even with the new device with two black lines, it is not always clear whether a fault has occurred.
     
  7. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Just because someone tries to improve something doesn't imply that it "didn't work" before. If the new 1.15 m rule will really be an improvement has to be seen with the upcoming tournaments.

    Changing the service rules at the extent that you are thinking about will change the whole characteristic of badminton itself. And besides, zero of the badminton gyms I know would have just remotely enough space behind the courts to allow a player standing there and actually perform the serve.
     
    #387 s_mair, Mar 6, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  8. necrohiero

    necrohiero Regular Member

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    Naah. No back serves. Badminton serves are unique. Keep it this way.. (and like the other have said.. it will bring more problems)
    And..
    This experiment with 115 cm, i think, is there because below the ribs (waist) have too much variable, even the rackets pointing in downward direction.. After a review of a lot of serving fault or some disputed services..(that i do personally through YouTube) i cannot say that i am convinced with a lot of the decisions, even after the replay.. (and imagine the judge have to do it in fast realtime condition).

    I am curious how the recent service rule was made.. and comes to play, eventhough we didn't even have clothing to assist seeing where the waist is. If we are talking about parallax and all that stuff for the 115cm (which is a lot easier to control.. maybe even with laser and other available tech) how can you expect the service judge to rightly control where the waist is??? Or that also parallax problem for the judge to see the direction of the racket when hitting the ball.

    My personal opinion is that the recent rule was to force underhanded serves in general (so that people just cannot smash the ball in the first place); and because it can be applied anywhere easily.. (maybe i need to research more about this).. but in pro play? Or in world series?

    Remember Chen Long's case? (That one where he joked about pants) funny, but that just shows how the recent (old) rule is problematic. Or Sanjaya's service? I somehow find that the 115 cm serving rules are also easier to understand; but maybe it needs time to think about how to control the height.
     
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  9. xiaoqiao

    xiaoqiao Regular Member

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    Ok, serving from the back line was meant to be a joke, no need to take it seriously lol.
    From what I have noticed the serve heights in game for most people were basically not changed. Most people serve slightly higher than legal anyway prior to the rule change.
    With the black line parallax or whatever they call it, it is made to be very clear to see whether a fault has occurred. The only part I guess is debatable now is if 1.2m is necessary.
     
  10. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    But that shows incorrect communication of the laws, not a problem with the pre-2018 laws itself. The actual waist is irrelevant since 2006; Chen Long just thought it would be relevant, which is a common misconception among players of all levels. The technocratic wording in the laws didn't help.
     
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  11. xiaoqiao

    xiaoqiao Regular Member

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    I thought this was a good vid on the serve rule in effect. Ahsan's service faults were very easy to catch with the black marker, and he probably faulted over half his serves. He got screwed lol.
     
  12. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Hell, everyone serves higher than ahsan include the denmark guys..
     
  13. necrohiero

    necrohiero Regular Member

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    Maybe true.

    But really.. tell me.. How could anyone really check where someone's last rib is.. For me, that pants joke from chen long, shows also, that a different judge also could see what is defined as waist differently.

    And moreover that thing with the racket pointing downwards while hitting.... How many times did I see someone faulted because his racket pointing up.. after the hit..

    Not just the communication.. but also the implementation.

    But now.. with 115cm.. it should be easy communication (everyone can understand 115, and it is not based on some waist that can difficult to control or interpret)..

    But still bad implementation (like we see now in German Open)
     
  14. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    Why do you think the implementation is bad?
     
  15. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    When Luise Heim gets faulted several times in a WS match, something is wrong. I haven't seen her match, but she does a FH serve that looks very normal to me.
    She said she had trouble with the new rules. She didn't change anything, because she thought to be safe due to her height (1,74 m). Still, she was faulted many times.
     
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  16. xiaoqiao

    xiaoqiao Regular Member

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    I don't see how some person should become the bar of judgment, especially one that isn't super well known.

    I see a ton of (unjustified) annoyed people in the german open who are not adapting well to the stricter rule enforcements. My 6ft 2 friend's lowest ribs are very slightly lower than 1.15m, and basically anyone below that (most players in german open) don't really have an excuse. The overwhelming number of service faults are called correctly. What's the deal?
     
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  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    She's 1.74m? She would be much safer if she were 1.64m...
     
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Err, she assumed she would be OK but obviously didn't check beforehand. That's her own fault.
     
  19. Scott Kam

    Scott Kam Regular Member

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    Sorry for my ignorance, is the rule 9.1.7 still applicable in parallel with the new 1.15m rule?
     
  20. Scott Kam

    Scott Kam Regular Member

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    Also, did BWF make special chairs for the service judges where the height of the chair could be adjusted so that there will be no angle of elevation between the eyeballs of each individual judge and the two black lines ?
     

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