No MAXIMUM Tensions on string specs?

Discussion in 'Badminton String' started by sautom88, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

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    My level is intermediate advanced n control player. My stringing on oval rackets CAB22 is 23lbs n on iso rackets is 24-27 (depending on the racket). Why most manufacturers do not state their max tensions on their strings? Don't tell me that the string manufacturers do not know nor test their strings capabilities when they manufacture them :rolleyes:. Even if they just rebrand their strings they should get that data from the real manufacturers.

    It is VERY important that we do not exceed our strings' limits of max tension (ok, maybe 5% over is still OK). Once we do the molecular structures are going to be broken or altered such that their repulsion will be lowered. I already checked n found out that only Gosen has their maximum tension stated on their specs. Gosen is one of the oldest n reputable string manufacturers in Japan n was famous for their Hy-Sheep series. I even believed that there are not too many string manufacturers in Japan. Anybody checked before?;) I even believed that Yonex strings was made by Gosen in the 70-80s. Any Japanese reader can confirm this?

    Now I just play safe n stick w/ my tensions (max at 26-27) because I still want my strings to help to repulse my shuttlecock. He..he..he..:eek: Out of stamina almost 50yrs old bones. However when I was at my peak at 18yrs old n playing tiring singles games I still remember only stringing up to 25lbs on a Carlton 3.8X (the flattened steel shaft). At those times I still could do a few backhand cross-court smashes from midcourt. Definitely not as strong as Taufik's but good enough to earn a few points.

    Sorry to digress but back to the point WHY no MAX tensions?;)...:rolleyes:
     
  2. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

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    Manufacturers Reps??? Or Agents of Manufacturers???
     
  3. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    Gosen still thinks it's the 90's?
     
  4. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Max tension for whom? The point at which string repulsion dips below an acceptable level is probably different for every player out there. The only way to cover every possibility would be to plot some kind of repulsion/tension curve for each and every string (not that I'm saying this would be a LOT of effort - if I were in string QC I'd probably enjoy it:)).
     
  5. CanucksDynasty

    CanucksDynasty Regular Member

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    There's probably a correlation between tension+replusion+breakage. So there's a trade off in everything.
     
  6. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    So now we need a surface, not a curve - uh oh. (I hope no other variables come up, otherwise we'd need a hypersurface that we can't draw.)
     
  7. Sevex

    Sevex Regular Member

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    I have the slight feeling you may have overcomplicated things slightly :D (although I can just imagine Yonex quoting, our string is so advanced it requires a hypersurface to measure it's optimum playability.)

    What I would class as a max string tension is the breaking strain of the string. After all you couldn't play with the string after this point. Didn't Dinkalot state somewhere in the panda power thread that one string (I can't remember which) couldn't take the 40lbs he was trying to string his racket with (to prove it's strength, not to play with it).

    Obviously various factors such as damaged grommets, twisted string would reduce the max but you could have a range like on rackets, you could have beginner stringer max tension x lbs- advanced stringer max tension y lbs. I suppose if anyone has access to a tensometer they could test some string and then calculate the breaking strain (or similar).
     
  8. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    That's exactly what I was going to do until I read the O/P all the way through, and mention was made of losing power on clears etc. And yes, I can certainly see YY responding with "well, if you WANT us to try and print a Calabi-Yau space on our string packets...".

    Breaking tension is trivial to measure (they do it in the Technifiber factory for one). I have accidentally determined several breaking tensions during my stringing career, but my results are by no means rigorous - we'd need the minimum of a sample of ten, or something.

    Publicizing breaking tensions could be a double-edged sword - I daren't speculate how many clown stringers would go for it, and it would raise asinine questions as to why the strings can take 10 lbs more than the rackets.
     
  9. a|extan

    a|extan Regular Member

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    maybe can read here

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-52888.html

    to me..the max string tension isnt that important cos whatever i have string...on my racket... it has never so far exceed the maximum limit that my racket can hold..

    maybe i am just a ordinary player..stringing up to 28 lb max...

    i feel that its the same as driving a car .n its tyres.. i rarely check on the maximum speed the tyres... can hold... as i have never hit any speed above it....

    (ps: i am not a formula 1 driver, beside.. they dun use ordinary tyres which we do).

    hence.. i wont worry so much on the max tension of the string i use..or shd i say i dun bother about it..

    looking it from another view.. maybe the string makers worry about warranty claim..
    say their string can hold up to XXlbs... but the string u buy breaks... before that..so how?

    if they allow every1 to claim....they b soon out of business...rite?

    anyway....there r just too many factors to consider about strings breakage...

    having to know the max tension of strings can hold...is relevant.. or at least to me.....

    maybe its my own biased opinion...only..

    cheers
     
    #9 a|extan, Sep 13, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  10. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

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    Thanks for all the reply but what i meant by maximum tension was not when the string breaks due to the pulling of the stringing m/c but when the optimum operating tension is exceeded. These strings are complicated combinations of micro/nano strings n they might not be broken but at too high of a tension they will not repulse optimally. Why then GOSEN stated their strings specs with 18-23lbs for such n such models? Does that mean that those strings are going to break when they are strung at 26-27lbs, with a tolerance of 10%. No, Gosen only suggests that those strings will perform optimally around such tensions on a badminton racket. Why can't the rest of the manufacturers follow the suit n INFORM their customers how to use their products optimally.

    After browsing on GOSEN's website, I noticed that most of the newer hi-tech strings are only suggested to be tensioned at <22lbs. Only the older classic strings go up to 26lbs. I myself will not string those 22lbs strings at 27lbs because I believe GOSEN's specs should be quite accurate (maybe 10% off but not 25% off). GOSEN is one of the largest string manufacturers in Japan n they had been making badminton strings since 1960, started with Hy-Sheep strings.
     
  11. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Hi Sautom,
    1) You did not ask your question correctly at the beginning. In the post # 10, you try to get your question across but they are still not a very good question.
    2) You need to think of your question in physic and engineering term. How high can a given brand/model string tension up to on a m/c without breaking. Why do I ask that? For example, if a BG85 will break at 45 lb during a pull (yes I know that because I broke BG85 during calibration of a machine) and you know you can hit and put 40lb of force on the string bed, then the max string tension you can string up a racquet is about 45-(40/4)=35lb. Because if you hit the shuttle in center of the sweet spot, you will contact 2 mains and 22 crosses and transfer the 36 lb evenly over the 4 strings.
    3) Another question you might want to ask is how high the tension you can go before you lose the string character. The answer is the max tension without breaking. So, that is not the question you want to a(r)se. Just like any polymer string, badminton string stretch under tension over time. Given the string is tied up at given tension, the tension will drop over time in a rate (i am not sure about the function, engineering guru please help on this) and lost it's repulsion characteristics. you might want to a(r)se what is the optimum tension for you to string up a racquet so you can get the most play time and repulsion out of the given string. I believe that is what Gosen numbers came from. Since now a day, people don't really know what the numbers on the racquet and string mean anyway, why do you put info on the packaging when you know it will be miss understood anyway?
    3) Also, what does your tension on your stringing machine really tells you? I once have a user come to me and ask me to calibrate his Eagnas crank machine, his tension was off by 5 lb on low side. Unless your machine has just been calibrated with in 1 week or you have a drop weight machine, the tension you mention means nothing to me.

    What is important is you find a string you like, the tension you used to. Then you adjust the tension up or down when you restring the next time. Once you have your optimum tension on a specific machine or from a same stringing person, just stay with it and enjoy. Let the geeks worry about the science, you just enjoy the playing.
     
  12. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

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    I agree on point #1 and #2 is irrelevant to my inquisitiveness (is there such a word?), I am not interested to know how much tension the string can take before it breaks. For #3, people do know and interested to know what numbers on our equipment mean otherwise they will not have heated discussion on balance point, stiffness...etc. I personally do care, esp. nowadays many engineering companies are so profit oriented that they never over-engineered their products like Mercedes Benz W124. They just give you NEWER things n confuse u w/ many NEW technologies that are not necessarily what u need. My personal opinion is that nowadays many companies are selling too much gimmicks n does not do as much R & S as in the past. They are more inclined to sell more than what the consumers need, so they can jack up their prices n thus profits.

    However, I agree with you on #4, lets just forget the numbers n enjoy playing the game. Thanks
     
  13. moomoo

    moomoo Regular Member

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    not sure about other strings but my zymax 62 states max tension 30lbs ... optimum is a subjective matter i guess.
     
  14. urameatball

    urameatball Regular Member

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    who cares about 'indicated' max tension.
    yonex indicates the tension range on their rackets and people exceed that range all the time.

    and as moomoo stated, zymax series indicates max tension.
    but just because it says 30lb, does that mean I'll string at 30, NO. I'll string at my usual tension.

    after they indicate max tension, what else will you want?
    max temperature?
    optimum humidity range?
    an expiry date?
    date of manufacture?
    address of factory?
    number of fibers used?

    I NEED ALL THIS INFORMATION OR ELSE MY BADMINTON SKILLS SUCK!!!!! LOL
     
  15. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

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    Yonex indicated tension range on their RACKETS, not on their STRINGS! WHY!!!
    So we could break them or render them unplayable (optimally, does not repulse well) as soon as possible?

    Many players love to string them as tight as possible but still playable. Mine is strung at 23/25 for isos n 21/23 for oval heads. However, most gosen strings are only recommended at <22. That is why i started this thread.
     
  16. urameatball

    urameatball Regular Member

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    because then the information will be redundant?
    eg. racket recommends 20-25lb, string recommends 15-35lb.
    therefore string the racket at 20-25lb because the string's recommendation is just added useless information.

    it's common (and reasonable) practice in badminton, tennis, and squash.

    If you feel you NEED redundant information, then feel free to buy gosen or ashaway strings.
     
  17. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

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    Reason for needing to know the info is because I believe many strings out there is similar to Gosen's. Max recommended at 22lbs, because I feel that stringing at 23/25 (many brands of strings, I am not mentioning them for good cause) the racket plays well only for about 2 weeks then they loosen up. I tried Gosen's Nano Cubic string which specifies 28max and it did not loosen up.

    Strings are rather expensive if I could only use them for 2weeks. What is yr point in implying that my skill sucks if i don't get the info?
     
  18. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

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    Never mind the last question I asked. My problem is that, can i use such n such string to string at 23/25 for my iso rackets? As for my beloved CAB22 I only string at 22/23 which pose no problems w/ most strings. However now it is hardly played because I am getting too old for such powerful racket (close to 50).
     

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