P&S camera

Discussion in 'Badminton Photography' started by ctjcad, Aug 18, 2006.

  1. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Wizbit, thanks much for your input also-:)
    well, i guess my hands are tied now:either stay with P&S and not get quality pics or go the SLR route..:pThe used/2nd hand DSLR is probably my last option, as budget is also a priority in deciding..btw, how abt SLR-like digicam?? are they worth getting??..if so, do you mind sharing which ones are commendable??..;)
     
    #21 ctjcad, Aug 18, 2006
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2006
  2. Wizbit

    Wizbit Regular Member

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    I make a correction, early Panasonics were noisy..but with the recent ones, they implemented heavy noise reduction...from one extreme to another, to the extent that images I've seen at iso800 are unusable unless viewed at very small sizes.
     
  3. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    well, there was enough lighting, i wouldn't say OCBC was "dark". But then considering we couldn't take any pics with flash, it made the situation a bit challenging..:p
    Anyways, appreciate again for all your inputs on my queries. They greatly helped me in deciding which P&S digicams to go for..:cool: On that note, 1 last question, i know we should look for a low f number aperture and high ISO option, but does shutter speed play an important factor also(ie. 1/1000 or 1/2000 max shutter speed)??..thanks again!-
     
    #23 ctjcad, Aug 18, 2006
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  4. red00ecstrat

    red00ecstrat Regular Member

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    no chris. they aren't worth to buy. they are bulky and their price are almost the same as an entry-level dslr body.
    on the "functional" side. nowadays, most of the digital compact cameras can do what those "prosumer" camera can! like my wife's old canon a70. shutter speed and aperture can be set by user. therefore, it is no point to get those relative bulky "prosumer" camera.
    i m not preaching u to get a dslr chris. u might think it's expensive to get one for baddy shots. but let's think it this way. in stead of taking badminton photos. u can use it for different kinds of photography. like family snap shots in particular. those pictures will become valuable from time to time! so in long term, it isn't really that much chris!;) besides. it's all worthwhile if u have a nice shot of your favourite player in good quality!:p
     
    #24 red00ecstrat, Aug 18, 2006
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  5. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    thanks for your feedback red00ecstrat..:) .hmmm, boy, with the way you've put those words, i'm getting more "combobulated"/undecided, if that's the right term..:p .hmm, actually i have an "old" Nikon FM2, which i've rarely used nowadays..What if, what if i trade/sell that and get a used DSLR??..hmm..but then comes the lens issue..:p:rolleyes:
     
  6. red00ecstrat

    red00ecstrat Regular Member

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    "no" again!:p better to keep your fm2 chris! it's a legendary camera that every nikon guy should have one!
    second handed dslr body would be fine. but bare in mind that the reliability might be the major problem. because dslr(s) seem tobe less reliable than ordinary film slr(s). the most common problems are shutter and hotshoe failure!
    have u got any problem with your fm2 over the years? probably not!;)
    if u really keen on taking badminton pictures. then u may start with a 50mm F1.8 lenses. it's a fast lenses in realitive good price.
    still undecided?:p
     
  7. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    hmm, when you wrote this(in bold), do you mean that these are the "common weaknesses" of dslr cameras(in general)??..:confused:
    Re my FM2, i know it's a "classic" camera, but i don't think i've got any use of it anymore(anyone interested?, PM me;))..So rather than it just sitting there not doing much, might as well trade/sell it for a digicam which i can use..Esp. nowadays, most people are using digicam to take pics anyway..:p
    hmm, no, not much problem with my FM2; except i noticed in the rewinder crank, for some reason the other day the crank got lose, thus i had to go and put it back in the correct place..50mm f1.8 lens??..hmm, i know it's quite fast, but isn't that too short for long range shooting purpose??..:rolleyes:
     
  8. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    a curious question, if iso3200 is so noisey, why nikon(or any camera) include it as a selectable feature?
     
  9. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    probably because it still give an image.

    if you are a paparazzi and you have Suri Cruise in front of you in a really dim room, you can probably still sell the picture for $mil's even if it is noisy.
     
  10. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the shutter speed was around 1/250 as i mentioned.

    there is a way to derive the shutter speed, aperture and ISO setting. it is really simple.

    each of the setting goes up in step, call a stop:

    ISO: 3200, 1600, 800, 400, 200, 100
    aperture: f/1, f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11, f/16, f/22
    shutter: 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500

    i listed the setting in such a way that the left ones provides more light while the right side one provides less light.

    if imagine you have found that a good exposure was: ISO400, f/4, 1/15

    ISO: 3200, 1600, 800, 400, 200, 100
    aperture: f/1, f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11, f/16
    shutter: 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500

    but you realize that 1/15 is too slow, you really want 1/125 for example.

    so you move to the right on the shutter section. but to compensate, for each stop you move to the right on the shutter, you need to move one stop to the left for one other setting, eg:


    ISO: 3200, 1600, 800, 400, 200, 100
    aperture: f/1, f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11, f/16
    shutter: 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500

    as you see, i moved from 1/15 -> 1/30, so to compensate, i need to move from f/4 to f/2.8. if you think about it this way, 1/30 provides half the amount of light (half the amount of time exposed), so to compensate, we move from f/4 to f/2.8 as f/2.8 give double the amount of light than f/4.

    if you do the same step over and over until you get to 1/125, you will find that you might arrive at this:


    ISO: 3200, 1600, 800, 400, 200, 100
    aperture: f/1, f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11, f/16
    shutter: 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500

    i hope that make it more clear.
     
  11. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    totally. i still have mine and will be keeping it. it was the first camera my dad bought me when i was 17 yrs old. i just started learning about photography then (i am still learning now...). to me it has tremendous sentimental value.
     
  12. red00ecstrat

    red00ecstrat Regular Member

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    quite a numbers of canon dslr users here found that. their cameras fail to fire a flash or even fail to release the shutter after a year or 2! "it hardly happen to it's film cameras." therefore, if u are planning to buy some used dslr body. u will probably need to spare some money for fixing problems within a short period of time.

    true, but nothing is perfect chris;) if u can sit a bit closer to the court. u can defintely get a sharper shot of player out of it rather than a digital p&s camera!:p
     
  13. red00ecstrat

    red00ecstrat Regular Member

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    got your first nikon slr at the age of 17??? impressive! u have a really really good daddy kwun!:D
    i m doing the same to my nikon f3. it's my first workhorse camera! eventhough it looks terrible (very poor condition)! like your fm2, it has tremendous sentimental value to me!:p
     
  14. red00ecstrat

    red00ecstrat Regular Member

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    some observation from your photos chris. again, it's related to aperture.
    u will probably find that the picture looks much worse when u had zoomed in. it's common because the lenses of a digital p&s camera wasn't particularly good in design. the aperture will become smaller at longer focal length. just check it. if u found that for example, 35-70mm F3.5-4.5. that means when u set it to 35mm the maximum aperture will be F3.5. but, when u zoom in to 70mm then the maximum aperture will decrease to F4.5. that's 2/3 stop! for sports photography. there will be a huge different between a photo which was shot at 1/500 sec and 1/320 sec!
     
  15. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    kwun, that was a pretty comprehensive explanation-thanks..:).
    Yes, i kind of understand abt that, but those settings(ISO, aperture & shutter speed) if done on an DSLR can be manually adjusted. In my case with my P&S digicam, I can't adjust all those settings manually, except changing the ISO, and that's not even available on all the Modes.:p
    BTW, is 1/3200 the max speed on your DSLR camera(as you mentioned above & in another post). I don't think so, correct??..
     
    #35 ctjcad, Aug 19, 2006
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  16. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    hmm, i see..so does that apply to canon dslr only or other brands as well??..How abt Pentax brand for DSLR?? is it worth getting??..:rolleyes:
    hmm, this is interesting and it's something that i've to try out myself..on that note, do you mind explaining what is/are the reason behind this?..;)
     
    #36 ctjcad, Aug 19, 2006
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2006
  17. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    hmm, we're still talking abt the P&S, how abt if the zoom lens can go longer?? say 36-200mm, will that make any difference?? or it still depends on the aperture size of the lens capability? cos i mentioned in my earlier post that my P&S digicam has a lens of only 35-104mm..:pImagine that, and i was already sitting closer to the court(still on the benches though)..:p
    That's why one of my criteria for the P&S is one that has a lens which can zoom longer than 200mm or even more than 300mm, rather than the standard/common ones(114mm or 104mm) ..:rolleyes:
     
    #37 ctjcad, Aug 19, 2006
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  18. red00ecstrat

    red00ecstrat Regular Member

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    i don't really know if nikon got the same problem. coz nikoner are minorities in my field.:D
    my opinion is that. better to stick with those mainstream camera brands. because of their popularity. in case of emergency. we can borrow lenses and accessories from others very easily.

    a compromise between budget, aperture and focal length.;)
    50 F1.8 is a fast lenses with affordable price which gives u the highest possible shutter speed to freeze an action. the only problem is it's focal length. that's why u gotta sit a bit closer to the court in some cases.
     
    #38 red00ecstrat, Aug 19, 2006
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  19. red00ecstrat

    red00ecstrat Regular Member

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    again, it's all about the aperture. it isn't really helpful to indoor baddy shots if that 36-200mm zoom lenses is a F3.5-5.6!:p
     
  20. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    yeah. that's the flexibility that better cameras gives you.

    it goes up to 1/8000, but that's mostly irrelevent to me as i will hardly ever need to go up to that speed.

    don't be too caught up with the *max* capabilities. they are mostly there for marketing purposes. like red said, yeah, it can go up to 200mm, but it will be useless at f/5.6. 1/8000 sounds good, but due to the contraint i mentioned, you will hardly ever need to use it.
     

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