Praveen Jordan / Melati Daeva Oktavianti

Discussion in 'Indonesia Professional Players' started by ebcd, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Had they converted the Match Point against ZhengHuang in AE, its most likely that the SS titles different will have been less than 5-2. Imagine the confidence that can be gotten from winning AE.

    Then it wouldnt have looked that far afterall
     
  2. badmintony

    badmintony Regular Member

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    Melati has improved a lot but she still has to match debbie's level in order to make her pair with jordan a truly winning one. Her gameplay's still quite reactive and must be more aggressive and proactive.

    Sent from my JSN-L22 using Tapatalk
     
  3. ebcd

    ebcd Regular Member

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    and don't forget his flick serves :p
     
  4. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    I think right now it is very close between Praveen/Oktavianti and Zheng/Huang.

    But I have two questions:

    1. Right now the threat to Zheng/Huang is the crude power of Praveen ... of course a huge improvement by Oktavianti too but Praveen is the threat. Oktavianti on her own would be no match for Huang I believe - Do you guys think that with a slower shuttle / slower environment taking out the speed of the smash of Praveen, would make Zheng/Huang be able to overpower them again?

    2. What are the smash speeds of Praveen? Is he amongst the fastest? His smashes looks heavy!!
     
  5. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    that's the key more than just speed. a 245 mph smash (at the point of racket contact) is not the same for everybody. praveen strikes the shuttle with greater force enabling the shuttle to maintain its speed and arriving sooner than expected, thereby feeling heavier on the defensive players racket, causing lift returns fall shorter.

    you can feel it when you're watching up close and in person.
     
  6. Pagz

    Pagz Regular Member

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    That's nonsense. The shuttle has a certain momentum when it leaves the racket which ist defined as mass*speed. Since the mass of the shuttle is independent of who hits it, the speed is the only variabel that matters.
     
  7. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    i was waiting for a physics/math reply...

    some ?'s...

    is string tension irrelevant?
    should every 200 mph smash sound the same from every player?
    what about racket speed at moment of contact? can different racket speeds result in identical smash speed?
    does leverage due to length of arm stroke factor in to it?

    are you saying it's impossible for player a's 200 mph smash to slow down sooner than player b's?

    this issue came up in tennis. venus william's 129 mph serve was shown to slow down sooner than a 129 mph serve from other male players. the on air commentators did a whole thing about it.

    for a more conclusive effect of smash speed shouldn't the speed gun be measuring shuttle speed from the moment prior to the defender making contact? hmmm...
     
  8. Pagz

    Pagz Regular Member

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    No, string tension affects the initial speed of the shuttle.

    Not necessarily and I think that is where the confusion comes from. People think deeper sound = more power vs high pitched sound = fast. But that correlation doesn't exist. You could hit exactly the same smash speed with two different rackets/string and it would sound different. That's because the sound is energy lost at contact between racket and shuttle so it has nothing to do with the final momentum (energy) of the shuttle after contact.

    If the contact time between racket and shuttle was infinitely small then yes. But in reality the contact time is probably a few ms and during that time more energy gets fransferred from racket to shuttle. My intuition tells me that the share of the second "mechanism" to the final shuttle speed can largely be neglected, but I don't have any mathematical proof for that.
    To your second question: Yes of course. If you don't hit the shuttle correctly (by slicing it for example) then a smaller portion of the rackets energy will get transferred to the shuttle.

    It affects the initial speed of the shuttle, just like string tension and a lot of other factors.

    How the shuttle slows down will mostly be dependant on air resistance. I would assume that a sliced shot slows down faster, because the shuttle is moving more in the air and thus the air resistance will be larger. However, I don't know how big of a difference that makes

    Do you have a link to that? Because to me that sounds implausible. The spin of a tennis ball might slightly influence the way it slows down, but I can't imagine by a substantial amount.

    I think most people want to know the maximum speed that a badminton shuttle can reach, so it makes sense to measure it just after contact with the racket.
     
  9. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    What about the mass hitting the shuttle?

    Hmmm let me take a very unscientific approach to it...

    Let's say you are punched by a skinny guy at 25 km/h (Goh V Shem) and then you are punched by a huge guy at 25km/h (Praveen). Will there be a difference? I'm guessing yes because simply the mass/weight/size of the hands of Praveen is so much bigger that it would make a heavier impact.

    Could it be that it is the same thing that's happening with the racket and shuttle? The weight transferred by Praveen using his huge body would be more impactful than the weight that Goh V Shem can transfer --- taking into account that their techniques are more or less same level since they are both world level? if that's the case then there should be a difference in speed? but if the difference isn't seen in speed, what would be different then?

    Unless his smashes are much faster than the other male players in XD, there should be a difference in his smash (if not speed) which makes Zheng Siwei not able to defend or even react.

    Maybe i'm spouting nonsense :S
     
  10. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Imo he's hitting so hard that he's collapsing the shuttle sending it like a missile... Notice how the shuttle needs to be changed almost after every time he smashes...

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  11. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    Okay but then shouldn't his smash speed be at least amongst the highest?
     
  12. Pagz

    Pagz Regular Member

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    Yes exactly. The difference would be the speed of the shuttle. Once the shuttle leaves the racket, the players weight or how hard he hit the shuttle is irrelevant.
     
  13. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    To which my question on whether he has the fastest smash at least amongst XD male players. Are we talking 400kph?
     
  14. Desireless

    Desireless Regular Member

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    force = mass x acceleration

    So yes, someone heavier will apply more force to the shuttle.
     
  15. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Praveen's smashes remind me of Xu Chen's.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
  16. BojepJoe

    BojepJoe Regular Member

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    Mass of the player or mass of the shuttle?

    According to wikipedia, both Jordan and Liu are listed at around 87/88 KG. He should be mention in the same regard with Jordan as a heavy hitter then?
     
  17. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Having 2 vs 2 also make the shuttle looks faster than say 1 vs 1.

    Just like when you feel you drive faster in narrow streets compared to highway when its actually the same. so 2 vs 2 causing the field to be narrower.
     
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  18. Desireless

    Desireless Regular Member

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    In this case, mass of whatever is hitting the shuttle.

    Just because Jordan and Liu are nearly the same weight, doesn’t mean their arms are the same size, their racquets are the same balance, and most importantly doesn’t mean they can both generate the same acceleration of the racquet.
     
  19. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    It could be the way he is generating power giving us the impression of hitting harder.

    We all know the burst of power he can generate with no back swings.

    Maybe his contact point with the shuttle is shorter?
     
  20. Dangho

    Dangho Regular Member

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    There are so many factors behind a powerful smash, and "mass" isnt the important one. Generating optimal smashing power essentially means generating power from your whole body and transferring that power with minimal leakage to the contact point with the shuttle. Why does Goh V Shem hit harder than Danny Bawa Christnanta? Because he is better at converting power into the smash despite probably being a less powerful athlete (and technique of course).

    After the contact point, the speed the shuttle would gain during flight, or more fittingly, momentum, depends on mass of the shuttle and velocity. A damaged or lighter shuttle will result in less momentum and vice versa. This is why the shuttle travels so fast in humid conditions like at the Indonesia Open.
    However, momentum is not only described in kg * m/s but also in magnitude, henceforth a smash with a steeper angle will hit the floor faster than a flat one with the same power/velocity. I believe praveens smashes appear faster than other hard hitters because of angle and nothing else.
     
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