Rexy - To Enforce Or Not to Enforce

there goes your understanding disorder...

 

They're unfit. Just look at last year's China open against LYD and JJS, after LYD had like a 75 minute XD game. They were barely smashing at all compared to the koreans...

 

when a player is unfit and he goes 100% he gets not far

when his mind found out he is not fit, his body will only go 80% he gets even not far

the not far is probably 1st game, depending on opponent

 

dont be to harsh lah
later someone :crying:

lol
this is old story
that was lyd 2nd tournament and koo/tan 4th tournament in four weeks(3 finals and one quater final)

 

i would change gear to 110% or more

 

Doesn't matter...I would say that LYD has more reason to be tired after only getting a short break between matches than KKK/TBH who get a day between each match. And that's just one example....but TBH's general playing stil doesn't involve much smashing. Have you ever seen him do many consecutive jump smashes? He always drops after 2.

 

that was an old issue
i dont want to drag up my point for it

anyway

i think koo/tan fans might be jumping up and down since long time ago

because

people complain they are
fat(kkk)
skinny(tbh)
no stamina(kkk)
fancy(kkk)
lazy(like to sit on floor,kkk/tbh smash only 2 time per rally)
not serious during match(tbh smiling like gao ling)
no fighting spirit(both)
attitude problem(both)
and tons more

and yet
they have 7 ss titles(include one ae)
5 grand prix gold titles
1 ag gold
1 wc bronze(kkk have 3)
1 super series master final title

if they are getting more serious or a bit more hard working
then they would have at the top of the world given how people belittle of them

 

You're right. They could have achieve more if they play with their heart out. IMO they are at least on par with Cai/Fu on paper, but their achievement does not shine next to the Chinese.

This thread is no surprise, and I have (and many others) had already said many times the lack of discipline is the root problem of Malaysia team.

They could have learn from the Korean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3_qr4KF78&feature=related

 

Yes they're still winning, but if you think about it, they won the 2006 AG, 2007 AE, and have failed in all of the big tournaments since. And don't fare well against Cai/fu, LYD/JJS, or HS/MK.

I think the reason why we all expect better from them is because they won so many important tourneys before....and now just don't seem to be as in to it. Watch the 2006AG final and now and you can tell that they're a lot more casual and fool around a lot more.

 

Just as a matter of interest were Lee Wan Wah and Choong Tan Fook very well toned

and fit compared to Koo and Tan?

Many coaches on TV always joke that Lee and Choong and Lee were very intimidating figures on court by their sheer size, but they also displayed great skills.

Their track record is not too bad either with great performances in the AE.

Many coaches in the past always say that Icuk Sugiarto is probably the most muscular of any badminton player and for some reason these same coaches claim that it is actually a hindrance to a badminton player.Some of our Malaysian players like Rashid Sidek and Lee Chong way are also very muscular.

I am not a coach nor qualified in sports science, it is possible that physical consditioning may not be the only answer, it may be more thinking, concentration,
skills, exercises, strategic thinking on the part of coaches etc etc. Remember how the 80s Malaysian team could never beat China players, they brought in Fang Kai Xiang to upgrade the training ,then Han Jian, Yang Yang and Chen Chang Jie and eventually won the Thomas Cup.
Then again nowadays we are playing the 21 point system,it was not like 92 with FKK and Rashid playing long rallies to the tune of the fanatic crowd and wearing down skillfull Alan Budi or Ardy. It is true that Malaysian players cannot sustain rallies longer than China players, but it is not like 92, there are very few clears it is played more like doubles.
In contact sports a lot of time has to be spent in the gym.Look at 08 Olympics Basketball, the China team was muscled out by the Americans. I am not saying that you are not right some of you may actually be coaches or qualified in sports science, maybe it is a combination of factors.

 

Come to think about it, the Indonesian players are known to be gritty fighters,

Simon Santoso was reduced to a passenger in the 3rd set by Chen Jin.He is very skillfull,

did he fail to fight hard, or fought too hard? is something wrong with his physical
condition? Same goes for the indonesian pair, Setiawan and partner.
What is meant by fighting spirit chase every shuttle and send everything back to wear down the opponent by FKK and Chen Jin?
Then it will be more like El Toro vs Senor Matador.
Nowadays playing singles is more like doubles, everybody wants to dominate the net ( can good physical condition improve net play?) everybody serves low and nobody wants to lift.Is it possible to win by changing the pace sometimes and varying some strokes,mixing up the speed of the shuttle etc etc (this are suggestions of some of the coaches on TV). Maybe the problem is more in the head than body,I don't know.

I think badminton is a bit like boxing, people can be most efficient according to their weight categories, people of a certain height carrying too much weight can wear down faster.


Lin Dan seems to want to influence people that his success is due to hard work and physical training that's why he is always showing of his muscles after he gives an impressive performance. there must be some kind of secret in China sports, that's why they are so successful in Olympics.Unfortunately , unlike the 80s they are unlikely to share it with others or sell them for a song like in the 80s.

Maybe the chairman of the coaching committee can shed more light on this matter he is a great corporate badminton player and is excellent physical condition, a real role model for his players!

I have not said anything new here, just food for thought and further discussion.

 

Now I remember. Some coaches were saying sometime ago that Icuk's phusique was not good for badminton players. He was carrying too much muscle mass in the wrong places and the proportion and distribution were not ideal.
I remember some implying that a player like Taufik had the right muscles in the right places, that's why he is so speedy and he has such powerful and effective strokes.
Veteran Zhao Jian Hua when asked why he didn't chase certain shots that were well out of reach explained that he was merely giving up a hopeless cause and merely saving his enery for the next rally .
I am no physical instructor are all these true and relevant for badminton players today?
Or is the training required different for singles and doubles, which make my comments totally irrelevant.

 

My replies to X Ball in Red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loh

I'm sure MAS has good physical specialist trainers to help the MAS Team. At their top level of play their fitness should not be seriously doubted. Now if physical fitness is the ultimate to beat the best in the world, then KKK/TBH in their so-called weak physical state could not hope to win international titles let alone remain WR1 for some time now. Why blame it on Rexy for not moulding their doubles players into the fittest sports people?

I am doubting that because they cannot beat CAI-FU even though they are World no.1. Their fitness gave them away. Rexy needs to take charge coz if KKK-TBH keeps losing to CAI-FU, his job will look shaky.

The same opponents can win today and lose tomorrow. Even Lin Dan has lost to LCW but he beat the latter more times than he lost. Limsy may be able to tell us the number of times that KKK/TBH have beaten Cai/Fu before and now you ascribed their loss primary to lack of fitness?

LCW is WR1 now but he lost pitifully to LD 21-17, 21-8 in the TC SF.

China's WYH and MJ/WXL are WR1s and but they lost to Koreans much lower-ranked BSH and LHJ/KMJ respectively in the UC final.

So what is so special and significant about WR1 KKK/TBH's loss to Cai/Fu? Lack of fitness you said? They also secured the same number of points as LCW with their 21-14, 21-10 loss. Why did you not say the same of LCW?

Can you also say the same of China's UC loss? Lack of fitness for WYH and their WR1 WD1?

So WR1s can fall unexpectedly too and it has happened before! The form, more importantly the mental aspects, on the day counts a great deal!

There are other aspects to becoming world champion, not just physical fitness or technical skills alone. The mind is more important, the will to win at all cost despite seemingly insurmountable obstacles - and in this regard helping players to achieve mental strength right from the beginning is desirable and necessary.

Well the mind is important but we are saying the mind cannot will the body if the body is not capable. Did you not read what I wrote?

As I've said KKK/TBH are no ordinary 'physically weak' players. They are young and fit athletes to be able to remain as WR1 and win so many titles. They are no ordinary push-overs. I think they were just unable to bring all their attributes to bear in that important match against Cai/Fu. I believe the mind has a lot to do with it and I don't agree that their bodies are not capable. If they think they can't win then half the battle is lost.

How many times did we witness 'weaker' teams overcame the odds to beat their 'stronger' counterparts? A case in point is the recent shock defeat of MAS by JPN in the TC QF. And a greater shock came later when mighty CHN was defeated by KOR in the UC final! And KOR was the defeated finalist in the hands of CHN for the past 5 UC series, I believe. Nevermind what LYB had said that his UC team was young and inexperienced. Do you think the CHN girls are physically weaker than their KOR opponents and that's why they lost?

Yes, how many times? I can count it with one hand. And Japan beating MAS is a clear case in point, fitness is not with the Malaysian camp (except LCW).

I've mentioned that it is not uncommon for WR1s to fall. It has happened before.

Japan's players were mentally stronger than the Malaysians on that day, not that they were physically or technically stronger. But given another time, the result could change in MAS' favour.

If you said LCW is physically superior than the rest of the MAS team, than why did he lose so badly to LD?


So don't blame Rexy, whom many badminton enthusiasts have acknowledged as a great coach who has elevated the level of doubles play in the MAS Team. Not even the impressive Park Joo Bong could do it!

Nobody is blaming Rexy yet -- but will be soon if he cannot correct the fitness of his players. But it won't be me blaming him

Now Rexy, you can pretend that you could go on doing what you do but the results would be the same. Players can turn up (and I agree with someone who said the players are not that smart, and I sort of concur when I watched TBH answering some interview questions) and train like they do now. But very soon, the job would be on the line and don't cry wolf then.

But your very thread title "Rexy-To Enforce Or Not to Enforce" is biased towards blaming Rexy and threatens to enforce his termination for not being able to ensure a win for KKK/TBH.

To be fair then why don't you also start another similar thread for "Misbun-To Enforce Or Not to Enforce" since LCW did not put up a better performance than KKK/TBH?

 

The other observation I want to make about physical condition and being overwieght,

aren't China players like Zhang Jun, Xie Zhong Bo, Du Jing, Yu Yang or Zheng Bo fatties presumably? I'm sure China knows best the best physiques for a badminton player.
of course it is common knowledge in Msia that the public perceives Msia players as overweight, HTH was laready like that as a boy.

All I am asking is whether there is any scientific basis to determine whether a person's apparent physical condition can affect his/her game.I am sure there is a formula somewhere, when unearthed it will surely unearth the problems of Msia players poor physical condition or for that matter Indonesia too.

 

Your comparison is not totally irrelevant & yes, the technical training regimes are different between singles & doubles.

Also there's a difference between old scoring system & 21 points scoring system.

With 21 points scoring system, MD players are required to put in extra effort in each rally because every point counts under 21 points scoring system. The pace of the game has changed, Mens doubles nowadays are being played at such high pace - sometimes a match can be won in less than 30 mins.

The new scoring system has had the biggest impact on MD, changing the player's approach towards each shot & each rally.

Almost all the top pairs will try to create a healthy lead over their opponents in the beginning of a match & build on that, because comeback is rare in MD when their opponent is 6 or 7 match point down.

 

in any high level sports,
(1) fitness, strength are the basic ingredients.
to be successful (2) skills and talent.
but to be supreme (3) its mind power.

but of course, if component no. 1 is overwhelmingly superior to ur opponent, den the next components are less factor.

malaysia is lacking in (2) and (3).

 

for a joke:
that's why you can never complain your standard of play, you were never out of your cage

in reality:
at 110%, no need to use science, the not far is first 11 points, depending on your opponent

 

where do you fit in 'speed'?
in your fitness?
then fitness for all, the same?
what about speed endurance?

the same question goes to strength...