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Rules on brushing back the shuttles' feathers into place?

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by VeritasC&E, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. VeritasC&E

    VeritasC&E Regular Member

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    I love badminton, and I consider people I play with at my club as friends, so I'd like to find ways to clear away a few things which I suspect to be unhonourful as to keep it as enjoyable as possible. I therefore come here to ask a few questions to clear some doubts I have according to rules of the game, but also for practical advice.

    2nd Topic:

    A great deal of the time I play I am playing with one of the shuttles I put in. The reason for this are multiple:

    (1) On trainings: People either a) put in their shuttles each less often than I do, b) prefer continue playing with shuttles that are overly used rather than putting in a new one, c) sometimes put their fair share of shuttles but of a lower grade than the ones I buy, which thus amount to less relative time playing with them, or, most often, e) A+B+C together

    (2) In competitions: People are using the wrong speed at least 30% of the time (according to the proper test starting behind the line) so 30% of the time, at the very minimum, mine are used exclusively.

    The consequence of this is that I very often brush the feathers back on the shuttles before a new serve (so they fly properly without needlessly having to take a new one, most often if my own, when the current shuttle just needs to be brushed back).

    I know that this can be annoying for some opponents, though I do as fast as I can until the feathers are back into place, but unless I win the lottery I don't know of a rational alternative (playing 2-3x per week and using slightly more than a tube a week on average, my shuttle budget is already >1500€/ year).

    If an opponent offers to put in a new shuttle of their own as an alternative to me brushing it back I'd be more than happy to accept, but otherwise I'd like to avoid either sacrificing on the quality of play or having to change the shuttles at the minimum 3x more often than I currently do (which would be the minimum required to play with shuttles that fly well without brushing back the feathers on them), and thus spend 4500€/year on shuttles instead or 1500€ (which is a lot already, though I know some people at the club who spend several times more). I'd very much like to be as pleasant of an opponent as possible, but I can't really validate the idea of paying 3000€ per year only for people to think the best about me (which is what it boils down to).

    What are the rules with respect to this? Am I allowed to brush back the feathers more often than not before serving or before throwing the shuttle back to the opponent (who often don't brush it themselves before serving)? Is it enough that my position clearly shows I am not about to serve or can my opponent rightfully object on this other than by offering to put in a new shuttle (of correct speed, if in the context of a competition)?

    How do I deal with this slightly frustrating situation in which I am - not always but often: (a) The player or among the 2 players throwing in most shuttle money in that which should be an equally shared expenses, (b) Being made to feel like the annoying guy on the court?

    I'm fine with either (a) or (b) alone but it's very frustrating to have both at the same time. What is the best way to deal with this?
     
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  2. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    In theory, the rules are clear on this:

    In practice, virtually every player brushes over the feathers from time to time, at every level. So that's certainly not a problem.

    But it sounds like your real problem is not brushing the feathers, but an unfair distribution of the cost of shuttles. First of all, why can't you use shuttles that are too fast? Just tip them. Then wrong speed should not be an issue anymore.

    There are different ways to fix uneven distribution of shuttle costs:
    1. Make sure everyone contributes. Talk to players who bring inferior or not enough or overly slow/fast shuttles, and appeal to their sense of civility.
    2. Devise some scheme to ensure that shuttles are fairly distributed. For example, in team matches, often the home team will put up all shuttles. Make the initial server responsible for warmup shuttles and those in the first game, and the receiver for shuttles in the second and third game. Maintain a table of costs spent in shuttles vs hours played for every club player.
    3. Let the club buy shuttles for everyone, paid by all members via the club fees. This is by far the simplest solution.
     
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  3. VeritasC&E

    VeritasC&E Regular Member

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    I play in a very cold country and the problem is most often not shuttles that are too fast, but shuttles that are too slow. I know I could tip my opponent's shuttles but I don't really feel like "degrading" a new shuttle that is not my own (I also don't think of it as the most ideal solution as it shortens the shuttles' lifespan, and I like to play with a solution that minimises the joint cost of all players involved even more than the fair distribution of cost, though as you read well, I'd like a more fair distribution too).

    As for point number 1, I'm sure it would work for a few weeks until the issue slowly re-appears (I, myself, run out of shuttles a month ago and had no shuttle for 2 weeks as I was waiting for my order to arrive, which was a legitimate "excuse" not to have any shuttle, but in such situations only the person involved can really know how legitimate the situation really is, if not even bullshitting themselves, and so there are never clear lines about this. I like your solution number 3, though I suspect this would lead to gross overconsumption of shuttles for the same reasons as there is now an unfair distribution of the costs. The table in point 2 is maybe the best logical and most fair solution, though I'm quite certain that most people at my club would talk their way out of it (it's also hard to verify how much other people have spent on shuttles, even a receipt wouldn't be hard proof of anything).

    A) Is it correct to state that according to the rules I am allowed to brush back the feathers unless someone offers to replace the shuttle instead of me doing that?

    B) What should I do when a player complains about me brushing back the feathers?
     
  4. llrr

    llrr Regular Member

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    I don't understand why your opponents would complain about you brushing the feathers back. Most people want the shuttle to fly properly..
     
    #4 llrr, Apr 15, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  5. VeritasC&E

    VeritasC&E Regular Member

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    Well it delays my / their service by maybe 5 seconds. As to the flight: Yes, most people want the shuttle to fly properly BUT:

    (1) People don't EQUALLY want the shuttle to fly well (I am playing with 30-32lbs on a ZFII for instance, so it's important for me that the shuttle flies well to be able to hit it with the very small sweetspot on my racket, but an opponent playing with a larger racket head at 21lbs would actually have a comparative advantage if the shuttle was not entirely perfect).

    (2) They may want me to throw in yet another brand new shuttle instead when they don't do so themselves.
     
  6. llrr

    llrr Regular Member

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    You need to play with people who have the same expectations and skill levels as you.
     
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  7. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    No. The rules are written with high-end competition in mind and say nothing about who pays for the shuttle.

    If there is no trust between the players that the shuttle costs are distributed fairly, then it may also help just to shuffle all shuttles to one heap (say, every side posts up 4x AS 30 speed 2). Then, whenever you or your opponent are not content with the shuttles, you take one from the heap. After the match, the remaining shuttles are shared, with the winner getting the extra one if the number is odd.

    This is how it works at almost all medium-to-higher level tournaments here, and it seems to work pretty well.

    Like @lrr, I'm very surprised that anyone would object to a straightening of the fathers.

    So tell them why you are brushing the feathers ("The feathers will make the shuttle tumble, which neither of us wants") and just continue.
     
  8. VeritasC&E

    VeritasC&E Regular Member

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    The heap thing sounds smart: In practice people will put whatever shuttle type they have though, which is unfair as some will be worth 4x the price of others and last 6x as long, but it's an improvement already.
     
  9. juneau-AK

    juneau-AK Regular Member

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    I am not keen in responding to the rules issue. And I know much about playing in cold and dry badminton halls with feather shuttles.

    There however appears to be available now, carbon sonic shuttles made by Victor. Last year, they were available in Toronto Canada for about 25 C$ per tube. This may be worth looking into.

    Yonex also have experimented with carbon shuttles in tournament play, however, there is nothing in the market that I am aware.

    You may soon become the exclusive dealer in the whole country, and everyone will be your friend.
    All the best with selecting the best alphabet combination.
     
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Maybe you should lower your tension to reduce the disadvantage.

    How do you 'brush' the shuttle? What method do you use?
     
  11. VeritasC&E

    VeritasC&E Regular Member

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    I'm not sure how to explain: I rotate the shuttle and as I do I put the feathers that popped in front of the next ones back, if any, and brush back up the feather "hairs" that got brushed downwards (/towards the cork) back to place between two fingers. It's fairly quick. When there's been no miss-hit it's usually not necessary (especially in the first set of a high quality shuttle, such as the AS50 or, to a lesser extent, the A+300).
     
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  12. regularAl

    regularAl New Member

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    I do the same and seem to be the only one in the club doing this. While doing this, I usually explain why I am doing this. At the end of the day, we all want more quality rallies right:)
     
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  13. Jay Ng

    Jay Ng Regular Member

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    You should work out who wants to play with your shuttles and get everyone to chip in. Don’t play with those that aren’t willing to contribute towards your shuttles.

    I organise two nights a week and bring all the shuttles. Everyone puts in the required amount into the money box. I’m usually covered and have a couple of extra tubes left over every time I accumulate enough money to order another batch. I don’t keep the leftover tubes for myself but it’s good to have extra as some nights shuttles die quicker if the quality of players drop.

    I’m always brushing the feathers if it’s my serve and the shuttle can be improved by doing so. No point in brushing broken feathers but definitely ok if the feathers are slightly out of place. I’ve not had any complaints as I’m the one organising, paying through my bank and distributing the shuttles. I’d tell anyone to take my place if they don’t like me prolonging the life of a shuttle. I allocate a few seconds to straighten out the feathers, just the same amount of time to compose myself for the serve.

    Professional players do it so I can’t see it being an illegal or dishonest action unless your taking a very long time doing it or altering the speed of the shuttle.
     
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