Singapore Spotting Young Talents

Discussion in 'Singapore' started by Loh, Dec 27, 2007.

  1. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Messages:
    16,486
    Likes Received:
    838
    Occupation:
    Stock Broker
    Location:
    Singapore Also Can
    One way would be to get the Sports School or SBA people to follow up on these players. Nurture them, guide them and support them. Need parents coorperations as well. So, lots of communications, planning and brain storming. Its a big project & commitment. Hopefully money well spent.

    Well, I think that is what the authorities are doing - to seek out those young children who are talented in badminton and those who have the physical attributes to be potential winners, though they may not have played badminton before but they could be trained to be good at the game.

    When they are of age these young talents will then be absorbed into the Sports School (Secondary stage) or they could continue to attend normal schools and be assigned to the different badminton training centers currently existing and new ones being proposed.

    As what a parent has remarked:

    Mrs Jennifer Tay, 47, mother of twin gymnasts and this year's SEA Games gold medallists Nicole and Tabitha Tay, welcomed the move. "It's good that they're talent-scouting from a young age, so they will be able to groom them earlier to reach a competitive level."

    So the intention of the authorities is not to allow talent go to waste unless the parents and the children themselves object.

    As I see it, the secondary school level is well taken care of by the Sports School and the training centres. It is the primary school level that has not been seriously addressed but they are now doing it

    Actually this more or less completes the linkage, from primary to the tertiary level, as the SBA has both the junior and youth squads under training and the national squad as well, for both male and female.

    The Sports School's tie-up with the tertiary institutions, both local and overseas, enables the SS graduate to continue with his/he training whilst pursuing a diploma or a degree.

    I wonder whether you are aware of this arrangement. ;)

    What I think will disappoint the authorities is the lack of numbers. A small size will reduce our chances of getting a good number to be trained at the highest level.
     
    #21 Loh, Jan 20, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2008
  2. JBKokKeong

    JBKokKeong Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Johore Bahru
    Admirable

    Its quite admirable that you guys are trying to encourage and be positive about badminton in Singapore.....but sad to say i m very sure we will not have a local player that will probably break into the world top 5 and consistently remain there in the next 10 -20 years ( i did not even mention being a SS or World champion) unless we bang on foriegn Talent.... so in some ways i hate for the fact that the budget set aside for Badminton by the authorities is pathetic but laud them for the fact that they dint waste Tax payers money....

    if you wonder why i said this...i just came back from a trip to BBJSS in Msia and i realise that the gap between their Sports School player and our youth are too great... The training, environment, their attitude, behavior, willingness to train hard, never grumble, not even a single whine when the going gets tough while our local kids are the exact opposite....

    i dun denied that they have the talent ( i mean local kids) but it is a wasted talent as many of them are too pampered and will never ever match our neighbours in msia indon and china i m afraid.

    i had a very frank discussion with one of the "very experienced invovled in the msia badminton set up" and what i have learned from him is very true.

    Success in badminton requires 3 things :

    1 Talent
    2 Hardwork & perserverence
    3 Support from both parents and authorities
    4. $$

    Alot of our players have item 1 but for 2 they will in the beginning but waivered when time goes by...
    item 3 and 4...??? haha....forget it.

    Why i say that....? Look at our talents.

    Gerald Ho
    Ng wei pin
    and some of them which i failed to mentioned.....
    where are they now? one in SMU the other NTU....
    and they are considered lucky as they are dual talent...academic and sports
    imagine if they are only sports...? maybe selling chicken rice or fried kway teow???

    I m in my 30s and seen badminton developed in the last 15 years... From SBA-F&N-SSC that i m a part with to Spex2000 Intermediate squad to what ever current program they have...

    all i see is name change but serving the same old purpose...it never seems to work...Unless you understand the fundamentals of how badminton would work in a system, i suggest encouraging them to take the game and enjoy it but never ask them to put badminton infront of studies... Many have tried and i think those are really very talented people but some of them made the right choice... unless you really think that a $2 to $3 k plus salary is very attractive.. Think...as a plate of chicken rice is $3.50, a macdonald meal is $6... HDB installment is $500 a month at least oil prices at usd$100 a barrel... and after getting paid $2 - 3k for about 5-8 years .. you ask what next...? Had i study harder.... would i be making $30-60k a month plus CPf retirement funds when i retire ?

    Think........
     
  3. Iwan

    Iwan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,874
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Singapore
    Yes there are Singaporeans achieving that, but did you think that it was all without perseverance and hard work as well? Do you think it is without a particular talent? I'm sure it is. I'm sure there are much more people stuck in a job earning about 3k to 5k a month for the past 10 years than people who are earning those big paying jobs you so desire.

    I haven't been in the Singaporean badminton scene for as long as you have, but I have at least three trainees at the top of my head who don't grumble about the physicals that I give them. They may say its very tiring, but at the end of the day they finish what they do, doing it properly without cheating, and appreciate me giving them such rigorous training. I know its not a lot, but those people at BBJSS that you see are probably a compilation of all those that don't grumble.

    For me, their perseverance and hard work feeds on their enthusiasm. And I see it as my job as a coach to keep their enthusiasm level up. I believe in being strict, but at the same time I believe in being friends with them and have fun during training at the same time. For me, that produces discipline and enthusiasm at the same time. I don't think you can just have one without the other, discipline without enthusiasm will lead to burn out, enthusiasm without discipline will lead to laziness.

    Oh and btw, from what I heard, Wei Ping and Gerald Ho arent just talented, they are also hardworking and have support from their parents. Wei Ping isn't training full time because he don't want to, probably thinks that he'd be better of studying and I won't deny that. Gerald Ho on the other hand, from what I've heard, gives up because the people in SBA were giving much more support to Kendrick Lee as compared to him.
     
    #23 Iwan, Jan 21, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2008
  4. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Messages:
    16,486
    Likes Received:
    838
    Occupation:
    Stock Broker
    Location:
    Singapore Also Can
    Hi JBKokKeong, it is very difficult not to agree with most of what you say on the basic requisites of being groomed as a champion. :D

    Indeed talent is not enough as much more has to be done to bring out the full potential of that talent. You have listed clearly what is required of a talent to make it to the top, particularly his willingness to work hard (and smart) to achieve his goals.

    As Iwan has said, I believe only a small portion of varsity graduates earn those kind of salaries that you mentioned. Depending on skill and experience, 2-5K would probably be the range for new entrants. Of course those at the very top professions can earn much more. Similarly, some without a degree who took risks to venture into business, can become millionaires in a relatively short time. But these are exceptions. Unfortunately, inflation will eat up a little of our cash every year.

    Knowing that parents in Singapore would want their talented children to have something to fall back on, that's why our Sports School required a minimum academic standard for admission as the trainees have to study to obtain the entry requirements necessary for tertiary education. But flexible time is built into the curriculum to enable the trainee to attain both sports and academic goals. This is perhaps different from the Malaysian system.

    Whether or not our graduates from the Sports School can measure up to those from Malaysia or Indonesia will eventually be revealed when they meet up at international competitions. Right now I agree that they are still below par. Our SS is still relatively young compared to those in the reqion and China, but given time, I believe things will improve and the trainees will have to improve as well. The foreign talents will enable us to meet the benchmark in good time.

    But some of our youngsters who became full time professionals after their 'O' levels are not doing too badly in international tournaments. Youngsters like Derek Wong and Ashton Chen.

    I think we must be selective in admitting talents into our SS as our own manpower and facilities are limited and the talent pool is small. By this I mean that we need to have a system to ensure that we can select trainees who will not drop out or lose interest along the way. And that parental support remains strong for that particular trainee. This is difficult, though.

    It would appear that youngsters in developing countries are more willing to turn professional and submit themselves to hard training. Singapore being a developed country with a higher cost of living and higher expectations will make greater demands on one's livelihood, thus the limited number of young people willing to turn professional with parental consent. It is because badminton pays relatively less as perceived by many, unfortunately.

    But prize monies have improved, especially for the SS, and with greater popularity and TV coverage, commercial sponsorships can only improve and make professional badminton much more viable.

    But if Singapore succeeds in building up its sports industry, which is one of the aims of the Singapore Sports Council, then sports may thrive and badminton can thrive with it. Then our efforts in talent scouting from a young age and preparing those selected as future champions will not become futile.

    The Singapore government really meant business to make sports an integral part of Singapore society with its recent push for the inaugural Youth Olympics (now Singapore and Russia are the only countries remaining in contention), its recent award of building the Sports Hub with an addition of a 500-room hotel and two indoor stadiums, due to complete in 3 years and the hosting of F1 racing this year. We can only see more being done to ensure sports success here if our economy continues to grow at acceptable rates.

    And I think if professional badminton can succeed in Denmark, a much more developed country, Singapore can also learn from it.

    So, it is not impossible for Singapore to produce top class shuttlers given time and the right conditions.
     
    #24 Loh, Jan 21, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2008
  5. JBKokKeong

    JBKokKeong Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Johore Bahru
    I thank you guys for the honest discussion...Interesting that you guys brought up many points....

    "Wei Ping isn't training full time because he don't want to, probably thinks that he'd be better of studying and I won't deny that. Gerald Ho on the other hand, from what I've heard, gives up because the people in SBA were giving much more support to Kendrick Lee as compared to him."

    this point brought up by iwan already make a huge statement. If our national association cannot attarct champions like Wei Pin and Gerald to turn full time something is very wrong....If you see such a system would you take the plunge???

    Its easy for you people to say about things from an outside point of view but have ever been in the Association? do you know how things work inside?? and you you know the fustration of the trainees inside?

    Its good to encourage people to train hard go full time but my question is does the system allow our youth to progress???

    The whole issue is about the system. From junior to senior level....the whole system does it make sense?

    I guess you guys have not thought about the system do you?

    Foreign Talents??? is it sending the right signal to our youth?? When they train so hard and make it to the 1/4 or semi final only to lose to a china import or indonesia import.... issit asking them to train harder or demoralise them? I myself have a bunch of players who never complain when training and really put in all the stuff during training but the ultimate result? some "overaged guys from some illogical countries sending in students with physique of some one at least 3-4 years older playing them like a little dodo doll" what can you do?

    i m beginning to feel its not worth my time engaging in this discussion as i feel only those who knows how badminton system is run in this place ( i dont mean "singapore" ;) (maybe legal issues here) and those who have been to the national training and those who are really familiar with what the association is doing will know what i m talking... The fact remains clear to me.

    The support in terms of $$ is just not enough??. The level of commitment is not there??. Players feel a sense of insecurity when turning full time.?? Favourtism???. so many stuffs. Thats y i say unless you know how the system work you will always be full of dreams. Then 1 day when you do understand how it works it become a harsh reality.

    I do not wish to be the one encouraging them to go on train hard and turn full time only to let them hate me and why i have never warn them about the potential pitfall. Its always okie to take badminton up as a sport. Being healthy is worth a million dollars. However taking up it as a career is really a turning point. Unless you are willing to fork out the money get yourself train in china or malaysia for 5 to 8 years and see how far you can go.

    Why their countries?? Those who knows about players who got send over china to train and came back you guys will know what i m talking... Just after a few months of training and when they came back they improve by leaps and bounds. So many examples.. Guorui, Weipin, and a whole list of others...They went and came back being the best of thier peers...but have you ever wonder y not here?...:D

    I think if we ever get a chance to sit down n discuss over a simple kopi, it would then make more sense. Rather just words..;)

    Anyway i enjoy the discussion. Thanks
     
  6. JBKokKeong

    JBKokKeong Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Johore Bahru
    i think you are wrong about weipin. he did considered turning full time but a series of events really put him off. Just like Gerald. :D And off the record, i know coz i have been in joint coaching with weipin for the past 14 months every sunday.

    What i do hope is to see a change in the current system...and i really do hope. I never give up the hope that we may produce champions thats is when we see a change in the system.
    If i would have given up hope, i wont be doing all the coaching. It still satisfy me to see my players win. This is a good year for me especially with my players winning the Boys U13 cheers doubles and U13 girls being runner up. i still do hope....:D
     
  7. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,718
    Likes Received:
    105
    Occupation:
    Chief Coach. The best and still active.
    Location:
    www.extreme-power.org or xtremexn.blogspot.com
    I thought everyone is blind and I can see someone knew it.

    I can feeeeeeeellllll it eventhough I am not very attached to the scene. If it ain't open enough, then it ain't gonna improve. It is a disease and it needs to put a stop into this. A cure is needed but unfortunately only the new boss can do it. Else, it needs to wait for another 10 years to get new blood to manage it.

    I would like to see some suggestions though. Perhaps it'll help to inspire those who really want to make a difference and make it better. One suggestion is to get the CEO to hire the true professionals with calibre like Park Joo Bong (or even the no holds barred speaker like Li Mao, Rexy) to investigate and give recommendation and put things in order and come up with a proper plan or path to make this nation a badminton powerhouse. Again, the challenge is how long can these consultant last and who is there to take over and monitor it consistently and professionally (the juice is needed just like the top
    politician)? Not easy. Very niche.

    With regards to "players uncertainties", I believe there is a lack of true champion coaching from past champions. How many are there here so far? and how many? I don't think the local champions are being looked as role models now. The respect and the credibility is just not there. Having a good role model to look up to is very important to a person's development and I
    believe it will definitely help if a few of them are available here. If you look at those successful countries, most are champions in some big tournaments somewhere and they do achieve it consistently (I really mean those who are consistent high achievers which you can see now in the market). That is why these countries can continue to nurture young players because they have someone who is a true champion who can motivate them (for a longer period of course) and be a role model to them.

    I also believe that there are proper project plans as to where the players are suppose to or hope to achieve and where they stand now. Is this plan in place? Any solution to this? What's the percentage? or how close are they to the level? If it is far, what is wrong? No solution? Beats me man. Hope money well spent. Anyway, enjoy the game! Couldn't be bothered much. hehe.

    "i m beginning to feel its not worth my time engaging in this discussion as i feel only those who knows how badminton system is run in this place ( i dont mean "singapore" (maybe legal issues here) and those who have been to the national training and those who are really familiar with what the association is doing will know what i m talking... The fact remains clear to me."
     
  8. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Messages:
    16,486
    Likes Received:
    838
    Occupation:
    Stock Broker
    Location:
    Singapore Also Can
    Congrats to you KK for helping to train our kids to become successful. Yes, it is not easy when you find the system is against you and consequently the trainees who want to aspire to greater heights.

    I hope the administration in SBA who can change the system for the better are listening to coaches and officials like you and can join hands to improve matters. Maybe the coaches can get together and present a case for discussion.

    It is clear that the government wants to see sports moving in the right direction from the recent initiatives that have been made public. But the nitty-gritties of management have to be left to the individual NSAs to work out.

    From this forum, we have also learned of the many difficulties similarly experienced by other countries with their local NSAs. Players and coaches were fed-up and took the last resort to leave to find a better solution. Whenever people are involved, differences are bound to occur, even at the highest level like the BWF. We could only hope that good sense will prevail so that the best result can succeed.

    Cheers for Singapore badminton! :)
     
  9. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,718
    Likes Received:
    105
    Occupation:
    Chief Coach. The best and still active.
    Location:
    www.extreme-power.org or xtremexn.blogspot.com
    Maybe they shd split up the money and have another independent body to fight and provide competition. Like sleague. hehe... SRC??? like KLRC??? so who's the santa clause here?
     
  10. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Messages:
    16,486
    Likes Received:
    838
    Occupation:
    Stock Broker
    Location:
    Singapore Also Can
    This story was from channelnewsasia.com, Singapore

    4 schools launch Junior Sports Academies, nurturing students' talent in sports

    26 January 2008


    The Junior Sports Academies officially opened their doors on Saturday.

    Four schools were chosen in the pilot programme to nurture talent in sports - which include badminton, netball, and swimming.

    At Chung Cheng High School, its wushu programme kicked off to a good start.

    40 Primary 5 students from 10 schools started their training on Saturday, including some who had no prior background in martial arts.

    The Academies aim to stretch the pool of sporting talent in Singapore by targeting athletes from as young as 11.

    Some parents said it complements the training the children receive in their own schools.

    And while the going may get tough, students said they're not going to give up.

    One student said: "I think it will be interesting and good to learn."

    Meanwhile a parent said: "With regards to whether he can do the wushu, there is only one way to find out and that is to try." -CNA/vm
     
  11. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,718
    Likes Received:
    105
    Occupation:
    Chief Coach. The best and still active.
    Location:
    www.extreme-power.org or xtremexn.blogspot.com
    BTW. I need a little help here. I have a student whose school is not interested into badminton at all and this student is keen to take part in the interschool event. How do I proceed with the registration? Are there regulation to make the school enrol for them? or can they be independent? A little dilemma since there is a good potential and no one can help. Wonder how the country standard can be raised. Appreciate your advice.
     
  12. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Messages:
    16,486
    Likes Received:
    838
    Occupation:
    Stock Broker
    Location:
    Singapore Also Can
    I suggest you give SBA a call. :)
     
  13. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,718
    Likes Received:
    105
    Occupation:
    Chief Coach. The best and still active.
    Location:
    www.extreme-power.org or xtremexn.blogspot.com
    Sba Moe

    Now sba is pushing it to moe peter chua. no reply form him yet. This is a common issue on all the administrator I guess. Er, this is not my department to answer, so pls contact the other department for help... I guess they don't talk to each other that much. Quite obvious..:( Jac send to Doris, Doris sent to Peter and I am waiting...:D Again this reminds me of why some player quits. Now I have second thoughts about sending them for trials.

     
  14. SkyRider

    SkyRider Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore
    BTW. I need a little help here. I have a student whose school is not interested into badminton at all and this student is keen to take part in the interschool event. How do I proceed with the registration? Are there regulation to make the school enrol for them? or can they be independent? A little dilemma since there is a good potential and no one can help. Wonder how the country standard can be raised. Appreciate your advice.


    Transfer school to Monfort Junior if your kid is staying at the north.kid still qualified to play if school reach the national level.

    Alternative just train hard for cheer tournament single in june.
     
  15. johnps

    johnps Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Singapore

    Inter-schools sports are under the purview of MOE CCA Branch. So the correct party to contact is likely its badminton coordinator.

    A few years ago, my daughter’s primary school was weak in track and field and so did not have a team to participate in the annual national schools track and field meet. We wrote in to her school to appeal for them to send a team for the meet by substantiating with timings achieved by my daughter in junior meets organized by the Singapore Athletics Association. Finally, we were thankful that her school agreed to send a small team to the meet.

    I would suggest that a better approach is to try and persuade the student’s school to participate in the inter-school tournament by giving good reasons. Bearing in mind that there are so many sports in the inter-school sports calendar, eventually, it is still each school’s prerogative (based on its limited resources and sporting talents) to decide which sports it wishes to take part in.

    Do remember that a student must firstly have the blessing and support of his/her school before he/she can paticipate in inter-schools sporting events.

    Best wishes.
     
    #35 johnps, Jan 29, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2008
  16. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,718
    Likes Received:
    105
    Occupation:
    Chief Coach. The best and still active.
    Location:
    www.extreme-power.org or xtremexn.blogspot.com
    The school is not keen. Too bad. I gave up on them and MOE.
     
  17. flyingfox

    flyingfox Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Northeast
    sugguest email to moe and cc to many authorities u could think of...eg..minister... :D
     
  18. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,718
    Likes Received:
    105
    Occupation:
    Chief Coach. The best and still active.
    Location:
    www.extreme-power.org or xtremexn.blogspot.com
    cc'ed already. No use. No one following up. maybe this guy will say sorry for the delay.... I wonder. No wonder so many quits. This is a classic case of frustration on players.
     
  19. flyingfox

    flyingfox Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Northeast
    if i was the parent, i would talk to the principal ... :cool:
     
  20. johnps

    johnps Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Singapore
    As I mentioned in my earlier post, the key is to persuade the school to send a team to the inter-school tournament. The school’s support is paramount before the students can represent the school in the inter-school tournament.

    I agree with Flyingfox. Besides the coach, the parents must also show their support for their children when appealing to the school to send a team for the inter-school tournament. Be proactive. The parents can impress the school by volunteering to help out during training sessions and tournament days.

    If the school is not agreeable then prepare your trainees well and get them to participate in the age-group tournaments organized by SBA or the clubs. If your trainee(s) perform well in these tournaments then you will have a strong case for them to take part in next year’s inter-school tournament. If players can produce good results in the national age-group tournaments, then I am sure most schools will support their future participation in the inter-school events.
     

Share This Page