Stringbed stiffness /racket density

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by Ales Berce, Sep 30, 2021.

  1. Ales Berce

    Ales Berce New Member

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    Hi fellow stringers out there ?

    In analogy from tennis stringing where ( for the same racket size) an 18x20 racket needs about 1-2 kg less pulling tension then an 16x19 racket to get the same dynamic tension(DT)/stringbed stiffness - I am wondering If any of you stringers out there compensate for this when stringing rackets with 88 holes or even 96 holes ?

    I didnt even think about it but as a club stringer my players are not sponsored and have a mix of rackets and complain that a Forza 88 hole and especially 96 hole rackets feel stiff as a board although strung the same day as maybe a Yonex 76 hole racket.
    Surely the analogy with stringbed stiffness must be the same in badminton as in tennis. Even with extensive google searching I found only one information (here:How to Choose a Suitable Badminton Racket and What Makes It Important in Stringing – Sulkapalloliitto) where a guy says a 96 hole racket has 30% more stringbedstiffness copmared to a 72 hole) - which seems to me quite logical.

    So my question to others stringers out there is do you compensate with pulling tension depedning on racket string density and how much to you compensate?

    Should these (pulled) string tensions feel the same?
    72 hole 12/13 kg
    76 hole 12/12.5 kg ?
    80 hole 12/12.2 kg :))) ?
    88 hole 11.5/12.5 kg ?
    96 hole 11/12 (theoretically if 30 % stiffer should be just 12/13 x 0.7 =8,4/9,1 kg which seems absurdly low)

    What is your opinion out there ?
     
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  2. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Wait, all of the mentioned different hole patterns all have 22 main strings and 22 or 21 cross strings or am I mistaken?
    A real difference in the string pattern would be those 20-mains Babolats or Adidas rackets.

    But to answer your question - no, I don't compensate anything on any racket. If clients order 22 lbs., they will get 22 lbs. Plain and simple.
     
  3. Ales Berce

    Ales Berce New Member

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    more holes = denser pattern. Forza 96 holes has 24 mains AND crosses - if I am not mistaken.
     
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  4. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Not really. More holes mostly mean less or no shared holes.

    Here’s a random picture of a Forza 96 hole racket:
    [​IMG]

    And that’s a standard 22x22 strings pattern. And zero shared holes.
     
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  5. flyingcords

    flyingcords Regular Member

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    My FZ Ti-550 N-forze Power VS has 96 holes and has 24 mains and 24 crosses (zero shared holes)... and I had an injury when I first play with it at my usual tension.
     
  6. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    That’s super weird. Luckily we don’t see many (any?) of those freaks around here.

    And I think the picture above shows a 88 hole frame so that would explain the 22x22 strings.
     
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  7. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    You are correct that tension density varies. obviously 100 strings at 20lbs will feel 10x stiffer than 10 strings (to give a more extreme example).

    However, compensation is not neccessary. If the customer brings a 96 holes racket and ask for 24lbs, likely he already played it before at 24lbs and is use to the resulting stiffness.

    ideally, in the case that most of us have multiple rackets with different head size and string density, the specification to ask for is to string rackets at certain string stiffness. however, that's neither practical nor easy to comprehend. so tension is what everyone uses.

    ps. and yes, head size also affect stiffness. a shorter string will feel stiffer than longer ones! and we never compensate for that either.
     
  8. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    What @kwun said.

    Also, it's not about the number of holes. Many Babolat rackets have ≥80 holes, but have fewer strings (20*21) compared to 72 or 76 hole rackets. The Forza (and some European Victor) 88 hole rackets just have fewer shared holes.
    Sticking to these Babolat, the strings are more dense at the sweet spot (even more dense than "normal" rackets) and less dense closer to the frame. Do you still need to compensate in that case? And how? They do feel different, but not really less tight... different stringing pattern strung to the same stringbed stiffness (at the sweet spot) will still feel different.
    If all stringers and players would use it, it might make changing stringers easier, but that's all I can think of right now.
     
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  9. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    I had a Forza 24x24 back in the day, and it did play a bit harder than the usual patterns. Babolat X-Feels, on the other hand, were noticeably softer

    And it's not just limited to the number of strings - anybody who's played with a Nanoray Z-Speed will tell you that the strings are less dense in the middle and it plays like a trampoline there, and a god damned frying pan everywhere else. Most inconsistent racket I ever used.
     
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  10. konstancij

    konstancij Regular Member

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    I recently bought and stringed forza aero 88 hole racket, vbs66nano, 11.5/12. It is stiff everywhere: shaft and bed. I think it is by design. They just make stiff rackets.

    btw, will be intersting to compare with ax99 pro from yonex, as it has 18 shared holes. it shall be super soft if assumption more holes = stiffer is correct.
     
  11. konstancij

    konstancij Regular Member

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    》Sticking to these Babolat, the strings are more dense

    dont even mention, recently, i had to 3d print narrow load spreaders end later found that there are 20 mains. - lot of fun.
     
  12. Ales Berce

    Ales Berce New Member

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    The assumption is more strings - stiffer stringbed for a given racket head size and pulling tension. It holds in theory and practice. We all know how to string Yonex. There is just so much knowledge and experience Mark L, Tim Willis and others have passed on. The big problem I see is how to string Forza 88 and 96 rackets so that they remain a good "feel". Does Forza have any stringing team of their own ? Does any one of you string for Forza ? 96 hole racket is near unplayable at 30lbs. Sweetspot is the size of a dime.
     
  13. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    Oh damn. This doesn't bode well for 88 S pro then by the looks of it. I passed on the uberschall F5 due to strings spaced out too far make it feel wrong to me. The Kalkul has more dense centre and felt really good. I didn't string the A5 lower but was tempted to string the F5 higher.

    So in my mind they should be more spaced out off centre to make misshits more forgiving. Proportional stringing should help with that though I believe!

    Re head size, i do suggest dropping 1lb if going from regular to small head. And probably tempted to go 1lb over on large head Li Ning stuff.

    Sent from my SM-A315G using Tapatalk
     
  14. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    I used to use mine at 32, and only two rackets I have ever tried offered less help: the Panda Ultra Mk1 - which I could barely even bend on a shot - and the Mizuno TC700, a ludicrously overbuilt engineer's fever dream.
     
  15. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I think Forza racquets are stiffer.
     
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  16. kakinami

    kakinami Regular Member

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    I didn't really think about it but were those people complaining stringing with someone else before you then complaining their rackets felt stiff or all of a sudden your rackets started to feel stiff?

    If they were coming from a different stringer then the other stringer was stringing softer or his machine was calibrated lower than yours. If all of a sudden your string jobs started to feel stiffer, check your calibration. I know you said only a certain racket type has a problem, but have you checked that too? =)

    Sent from my LG-US998 using Tapatalk
     
  17. kakinami

    kakinami Regular Member

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    Never tried them but maybe that can also be an answer to your predicament.

    Sent from my LG-US998 using Tapatalk
     
  18. Ales Berce

    Ales Berce New Member

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    Hi. Thanks for your input. I check my Baiardo with Wise 2090 and sometimes double check even with a manual Gamma calibrator. It pulls as it should. The problem I am trying to expose is as follows: if I string the same day to the same player one Yonex76 hole and one Forza 88 or even 96 hole they say the Yonex feels nice but the Forza is like a board. Both however strung with the same pulling tension. What the player doesn't understand is that the 96 hole Forza has 24x24 strings therefore higher string density and higher stringed stiffness and maybe it is the player who should order the Forza 2 kg softer in order to retain a similar feel with his two different rackets. offcourse good players should have the same rackets but club players sometimes have 5 totally different rackets.
     
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  19. khoai

    khoai Regular Member

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    As a hobby stringer, I take it as my responsibility to inform/advise customers what to expect from the string jobs. First feel their 'sweet spot' for racket/string/tension then try to match it if they have something different, i.e. change rackets, change strings or even tensions. For instance, BG65 should be 2lbs higher than BG80, AS11 should be 2lbs higher than AX88S/D, etc... If you feel the same, just tell them. The worst is they would say no.

    I have an ex-pro customer used to play with just 25lbs tension although he has incredible power so I had to persuade him and now he doesn't want anything less than 30lbs if racket permits. On the other hand, there was one guy who insisted 28lbs for his 10 yo son and of course the kid didn't like it and he blamed it on color of the string lol.
     
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  20. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Forza "stiff" is Yonex "extra stiff", IME.
     

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