Taufik Hidayat

Discussion in 'Indonesia Professional Players' started by taufik_lin16, May 12, 2006.

  1. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Sure, I am aware that a lot of people would love to spin it according to their convenience or beliefs No problem. It's a free world, and each is entitled to his/her, errrr... opinions. :)
     
  2. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

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    taufik has inspired a lot of the younger generations worldwide

    and its already been more than 10 yrs

    i wonder why some still can't notice it?
     
  3. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Taufik Hidayat is still our best INA player

    .
    Me too.

    I always wonder why some BCers talked so negatively about Taufik Hidayat when he is still one of our top 10 players in the world (in Mens Singles). Taufik played well for more than 10 years now. Taufik is still our best INA player.

    When fans talked positively about their heroes, I can understand them.

    But when BCers talked negatively about our top 10 players who are not one of their heroes/idols, I just don't understand it and I get confused. :confused::confused::confused:
    .
     
  4. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Does anyone know which racquet Taufik was using in the WC-2005 and AG-2006?
     
  5. ye333

    ye333 Regular Member

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    Then our experience differ... My own experience is that I would feel much better the 2nd Friday.

    When you considering the opponents, I don't think playing Rajiv is harder than a normal session of training for TH, actually I doubt the whole week of FO costs TH more energy than one week of regular training. but playing three young guns Tago, DPY, and JOJ in a row...

    How interesting... Honestly I don't think TH was tired in either WC match he lost to CJ. His movements were quite normal -- just that "normal speed" of TH is already not enough to catch up with CJ anymore.

    Luck is a big factor. If TH's string did not snap at 19:20, who knows whether he would win 2007 JO or not? And who did Simon beat in his first SS title? Are they any stronger then those opponents TH lost to in his 8 finals?

     
  6. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    - How about this for comparison. Try to play baddy for 2 straight weeks. You can choose to play doubles or singles, if you dare;) (i've never done that but i'd like to try it myself:p). Say from Tuesday til Sunday in the 1st week. Then take 2 days off and then continue with the same routine as the prior week. Basically the same format as the DO and FO. You can increase your level of playing competition for the 1st week, find some tougher opponents in the 1st week. Then, after you're done with the 2 weeks of playing, tell me if you feel fresher after the 1st week or after the 2nd week.:cool:
    - Like i already mentioned, if you believe pro players are trained to last them for a brief period of time to compete, then using tiredness as an excuse for TH's loss in the DO Final should be null and void. Heck, he could even force a rubber game vs. LD in this yr's AG Men's team semis tie, esp. after 2 weeks of literally continuous competition. Are you going to come up with a different type of excuse (whatever it may be) should TH lose his future match(es)??:confused:
    - Speaking about considering the opponents, that's why i mentioned earlier it's more about the level of your opponents/competition more than being tired in why you perceive Taufik had a bit of difficult time in the DO. yes, Tago, DPY and JOJ are much better in terms of skills and competitive level (besides younger) than TH's opponents in the FO. TH lost to JOJ because JOJ played better...all the reasons i already mentioned before..not because TH was tired..
    - About TH's loss to CJ in last yr's WC Semis, i think it's either he was tired or lost the motivation (for the "speed" reason between CJ and TH) or both. How else can you explain TH getting single digit in the 2nd game? Same deal with his loss to LD in the 2006 Japan Open Final. I also saw the video of his WC match from last yr and certainly TH just couldn't keep up w/the pace esp. in the 2nd game; in essence CJ was simply toying with him.
    - Yes, i wouldn't mind factoring in luck/being unlucky for TH (it happens to all players). If you want to include that in his DO's loss this yr, i would consider it..
    - In my opinion, like i already mentioned, an Olympic and WC champion and a talent and caliber player like Taufik should've at least gotten 1 SS title in his 8 (or how many) SS appearances. I know in some of those SS, he didn't have to meet any CHN players. He certainly could beat LCW (as he proved recently in the WC); i recall once or twice TH lost to LCW in the Final Rd. of a SS.
     
    #686 ctjcad, Nov 16, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  7. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Hi Cobalt,
    I don't know, but when I find out I will let you know.
     
  8. Isometric_kid

    Isometric_kid Regular Member

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    i only agree to one of your point, that people should understand and accept that fact, this include author like yourself.

    You should know that TH is 2.18 older than LD, so this mean TH should logically peak 2.18 earlier than LD.

    Here is the fact, LD won the 2006 WC at an earlier age than TH got his WC in 2005.
    TH and LD both lost in their first time playing the OG

    Regarding OG and AG, they only come around every 4 years, LD technically can not win these titles until the next OG om 2008 and hopefully 2010 AG.

    LD beat TH twice and won the team 2006 AG team title. Have TH won any team AG title or beat LD in other event? Not even close. Why the magican took 8 attempts on super series before he lands a title where LD were absence in most of the SS ?
     
  9. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    wkwkwkwk......dont be too sad bro. We all too busy reading ye333 and ctjcad conversations.
    as far as i remember TH was using AT series before Arc10, but to be honest i cant be for sure
     
  10. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Pardon me, but which fact would you be referring to? And which fact do you think I was referring to?

    Taufik won the OG2004, so should I then assume by your logic that LD should have rightfully won the AG2006? BTW, I love your "2.18 older" :)

    So LD peaked earlier chronologically than TH? Is that good or bad? What about Rudy Hartono? He peaked for some 6-8 years; do you have a ready explanation? Or Morten Frost? Or Zhang Ning? What is your correct, text-book age (give or take a few days, or course) for peaking? And how long is it supposed to last? (give or take a few days, of course...)

    Yes, even a dumb guy like me knows that even LD cannot quite achieve the feat of winning an OG between 2 consecutive OGs. But what exactly was your point?

    All I can say is: welcome to the out-of-context club. Instead of your vitriol, you should have taken the time to read and understand my post in it's entirety, not skew words and facts to suit your agenda.

    But of course, if it makes you feel better, you're the man! :)
    BTW, I wonder if you can help me. Do you know which racquets TH used at the WC2005 and AG2006?
     
  11. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    :D:D:D No worries! Just hoping to find out eactly which AT he used back then...
     
  12. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    In regards to Iso_kid comment on post #688, why dont you search at what age TH won his major titles?? At that age perhaps LD was still drinking milk.

    TH won INA open, Sudirman cup, and went on to the AE open at the age of 17. At the age of 18, he won Thomas cup, Malaysia Open, another INA open, Asian Champion, and another final appearance at AE.

    Forget about SS, SS is just another name for Open. There is no need for TH to win it to complete his colections.

    And as far as i know LD did not win his first major title until he was 20yrs old at 2003 China Open.
     
    #692 Yoppy, Nov 16, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  13. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Very correctly said, sir! :)
     
  14. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    What rackets Taufik used in what year

    .
    I guess we get no answer because we have forgotten.

    Hint: Ask Yonex, I am sure they have records of what rackets Taufik used in what year.
    .
     
  15. Isometric_kid

    Isometric_kid Regular Member

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    wow, so TH can't compare to LD's career accomplishment and now you guys want to push it to a contest of who won first title at the earliest age?? Desperate effort indeed.

    The difference between INA and china is china has too much talent, getting into #1 team and get more opportunity to play in bigger title tournament is not as easy as say, TH. Let assume TH peak earlier, so what? An early peaker is automatic a star or legend material? Hafiz won AE before LCW, how come HH play second fiddle to LCW? Using comparison of who won what earlier is scraping the bottom of the barrel argument i might say. I bet TH has his first pimple before LD too.

    Are you sure you're guys are TH fan? Even i know what racket he was using in 2005. It was AT700. Do you need to know what U and G too? string used too? tension too?

    The 2.18 years age difference is important number because TH was better than LD in 2004, 2005 and small part of 2006, ~ 2.18 year. However, LD is better than TH in large part of 2006, all of 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and counting.
     
  16. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Wow, kid, maybe you should use this for your next thesis.;):D OTOH, I sincerely thank you for the AT700 info. :)

    And just to clarify, I am a fan of TH. And LD. And LCW. And PG. And many more. But I am not a badminton historian. That is the truth, whether you believe it or not. And if you wish to dissect my sentences and selectively respond or detract, then go rght ahead. To me, beyond a point, its just a complete waste of time.
     
  17. Krisna

    Krisna Regular Member

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    I don't think Taufik ever won the Sudirman Cup. The only time INA won the Sudirman Cup was in 1989... Taufik must be around 10 years old at that time. Susi Susanti was only 18 when she won the 1st match for INA in the finals against KOR. INA was down 0-2, Susi played the 3rd match, down 1 game and 1-10 in game 2 [still using the 11 point non-rally-point system]... Somehow, Susi won game 2 and 3... Then later, INA won 3-2. Taufik was not in that Sudirman Cup win...

    Uhm, Taufik was also better than LD in 1999 [when Taufik first reached the All England final], 2000, 2001 [I think TH reached #1 WR around this time], 2002 [when Taufik was part of the INA Thomas Cup team, that defended the Cup for 5th straight times], 2003... then on to Taufik's peak years in 2004 + 2005, ...and Taufik bested LD in the end of 2006 [Asian Games 2nd title, beating LD in the finals]...
     
    #697 Krisna, Nov 16, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  18. ye333

    ye333 Regular Member

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    Your suggestion is not realistic... I am not a professional badminton player. My condition indicates nothing regarding TH's condition. For example, if I play on Friday, I feel very tired on Saturday, but on Sunday I can play again. Does that mean TH should feel the same? Nonsense. Right? :D

    TH's getting single digit from LD and LCW for quite a few times. Why can't he get single digit from CJ? After all CJ's level (in big tournaments) is very close to that of LD and LCW. If you really want a reason besides "level", I would say the "single digit" is partly because TH got very frustrated in the 2nd game. He lost his cool.

     
  19. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    - That's the point i'm trying to get at. If you know Taufik won't get tired (like most of us will feel), you can't use "being tired" as an excuse esp. when it comes to a pro player like Taufik, can't you?
    So, let me ask, if you play on Friday then rest on Saturday and then play again on Sunday, do you feel "fresher" on a Sunday or a Friday?..
    All i'm doing in bringing up the scenario is to counter your notion that a "fresher" Taufik would beat JOJ. Well, both met earlier this yr, playing in the 1st Rd. and probably feeling very fresh and yet Taufik lost. And prior to that encounter, TH barely won against JOJ. So, it's more of the case that JOJ's playing experience vs. Taufik was getting better and better.
    - The single digit game examples, of TH vs. LD and CJ, is to show you an example of, imo, a likely tired TH. I could tell from his court movements in that 2nd game (of last yr's WC, CJ was basically dictating everything). I use the scoreline as a basis to show a tired Taufik, just like i mentioned earlier abt TH vs. JOJ in the DO. How many pts did TH get against JOJ in the DO MS Final? and compare that to the examples i gave of him vs. LD & CJ..
    - So now your reason (or excuse) why TH got single digit vs. CJ, after he got 16 pts in the 1st game of last yr's WC Semis, was partly because he lost his cool/got frustrated? How so? If he lost his cool and got frustrated, then don't you think he simply lost the motivation to fight? Tired not a factor? How about in Taufik's loss vs. LD in the 2006 JO MS Final?
     
    #699 ctjcad, Nov 17, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  20. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    Guess who started this arguement first?? I think it was you on post #688

    Yes thats right, so what if one has peaked earlier. So please explain your post #688

    Knowing LD underwear size does not mean you his biggest fan

    Let me correct, TH is already a champion from 1999 and LD won his first major title in 2003. Thats 4 years gap OK??
     
    #700 Yoppy, Nov 17, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010

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