The holy trinity of badminton fitness

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Tangfastic, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. ant01

    ant01 Regular Member

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    Are there any easy exercises to do at home to build on agility and strength without needing heavy weights or lots of space?
     
  2. decoy

    decoy Regular Member

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    You can always do Chinese footwork to improve agility. You can find some sequences that don't really take up a ton of space. Just enough to do short hops.

    It won't give you big muscles like weights would, but it'll help with explosiveness.

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  3. miqsh

    miqsh New Member

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    It's natural. Badminton would be considered cardio. Excess cardio can start to burn off muscles (unless cardio is done little to moderately). The muscles are sore and stiff and even foam rolling is only going to stretch your muscles for a bit. Also shots in badminton use energy transferred from toes to hands, which is going to be effected due to sore&stiff muscles with energy leaks and such. So It's better you either reduce intensity at the gym and keep badminton on day you aren't lifting. Your rotator cuffs will thank you later. Even badminton sessions need recovery for most people. Personally, I can handle only a day per week of 3hrs of badminton due to inflammation issues after. It takes me a day or two to recover from that.
     
  4. ainchekar

    ainchekar Regular Member

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    This thread is GOLD. As a parent of a tween boy playing competitive badminton, am always hunting for resources on badminton specific strength and conditioning. Technique is given - but what can give a player the edge is strength (which includes the holy Trinity mentioned)

    Would recommend this thread to be a sticky and develop it into a valuable resource on this important subject.

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  5. ainchekar

    ainchekar Regular Member

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    Thank you for starting this thread

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  6. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Toes will get sore if you keep using them.. e.g. the big toe can get inflamed. You shouldn't use your toes. You perhaps meant the ball of the foot.
     
  7. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    I think i've seen they might not always do full squats. As their training is badminton specific.

    What strikes me seeing that is that he's using a foam pad. When really serious about improving squats and doing decent weight, like he is, or even less, then sometimes the traps can pop out the back pretty well. Some squatting enthusiasts would probably frown on a man using a foam pad, and find it unusual for somebody to get to that weight and still use one!
     
  8. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    While the photos in the OP is nice, I find plenty of excellent badminton players who aren't as muscular as them but still play excellent badminton.

    Example: [​IMG]

    Kevin here seems to have a normal body. Maybe today he's more muscular but he was achieving world class level before he became more muscular, if that.

    [​IMG]

    Kim Ha Na we can't see her topless but looking at that arm I think it's safe to say she's weaker than many of us but will beat us any time of day.


    This leads me to believe that for us normal folks, rather than spending our time in the gym, perhaps that time will be much better spent in the court training our footwork and techniques. This is not saying strength training has no merit btw.
     
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  9. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    That's true but that applies even to the top level pro players too. And they do WAY more training footwork and technique than any of us.

    And re physiques.. it's not such a good guide to strength. Look at MMA fighter Fedor. Extremely powerful but looks a bit like somebody's uncle.
     
  10. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    That's exactly what I was saying.
     
  11. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    ...
     
    #31 SystemicAnomaly, Jul 31, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2022
  12. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Not my experience at all. I was competing primarily in the 1980s and 1990s and was in the best shape of my life at that time. I had develop both my aerobics fitness as well as my anaerobic fitness. I found that badminton requires BOTH. If one develops the one, like aerobic fitness in your case, without developing the other it will be quite difficult to meet the energy demands of high-level competition.

    A number of studies in recent years, bears this out. The studies I've seen indicate that at least 60% of our energy needs are derived from the aerobic system; with the rest from two types of anaerobic respiration.

    https://shuttlesmash.com/aerobic-system/
     
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  13. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    It is quite misguided to put very much emphasis on brute strength. Some strength development might be beneficial but, much more important than brute strength, is (explosive) Power.

    Power, the ability to exert force very quickly, is sometimes referred to as a "speed strength". Very different from the conventional concept of strength that many ppl consider.
     
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  14. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    The relationship between strength and strength plus speed is a funny one.. cos if you have a weight and move it fast but then increase the weight of the weight then it will move slower.

    So a strong person could move weights faster if the weight of the weight was decreased.

    So a strong person might be able to move a heavy weight quicker than a weaker person.

    But it doesn't seem to extrapolate so far.

    For example if the weight is very light like a table tennis bat moving that fast seems to be very different to moving a heavy weight quickly.

    It's as if maybe some people's muscles can get very fired up and stimulated under a light load, whereas others under a heavy load.
     
  15. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Well. If a truck was going at 100kph I'd consider that to be able to hit with some good power but I'm not sure re the physics because eg you say power is about force plus speed.

    Force = mass * acceleration

    So if the truck isn't accelerating then what's the force? 0?

    So some have said momentum is more relevant than force.

    That said. Maybe the truck while perhaps not carrying a force eg if not accelerating , imparts a force since it causes the object it hits to accelerate.

    So are we then considering both force and momentum?

    You can also get force from deceleration too. The physics might be complex.

    Maybe you know?
     
  16. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Not certain that exercise experts have a precise definition for power. But it is certainly not the same as the way that a physicist might define power. For sports / exercise, power is about explosiveness -- the ability to move muscles, joints and, possibly, some sort of implement quickly (in a short amt of time).

    You have suggested that Momentum might be more relevant than Force. How about Kinetic Energy? Is it possible that that is even more relevant than Momentum? I don't really know.

    Is it useful to speak of badminton skills (strokes, court movement, etc) strictly in terms of physics? The physics needs to be tied in with physiology, biomechanics, etc. -- how the body optimally moves & produces desired results.
     
    #36 SystemicAnomaly, Aug 1, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2022
  17. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Some amount of strength is needed to play badminton. But I do not believe that amount of strength is particularly high.

    A very strong person might be able to move a very heavy weight or a high resistance. But when it comes to moving around the court or swinging a badminton racket (a fairly low mass and MOI), it does not follow that a very strong person can do this any more quickly than a player with modest or moderate strength.

    In fact, the very strong person might actually be slower in this respect. Because they are recruiting their joints, muscles, etc in a somewhat different manner. Some studies have shown that, if you substantially increase the weight or MOI of a (golf) club, bat, racket, etc, the recruitment of muscles and joints is different. Part of it is that a different balance of muscle fiber types (Type 1, Type 2a, Type 2x) are recruited.

    With a heavier resistance or a greater MOI, it has been suggested that we are training our muscles and joints to move slower rather than more quickly. Contrary to what many believe, when we move from a heavy weight back to our normal playing weight, we are not swinging or moving faster. We are sometimes swinging slightly slower. And we have temporarily thrown off our swing timing.
     
    #37 SystemicAnomaly, Aug 1, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2022
  18. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Plyometric drills / exercise is a way to develop power (speed strength). The following video shows some plyo exercises for the lower body. Anyone have any resources that show both upper body and lower body plyo training?

     
  19. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Do you have any links to those studies?

    Thanks
     
  20. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Putting aside the physiology and biomechanics.. I reckon the physics experts that'd have really good understanding of force power and momentum and kinetic energy, including even details about how long the projectile is in contact with the strings, would be the the scientific advisors behind the machines that state whether a projectile is in the court or out of the court. When those computers show a video of a tennis ball landing, that has people staring mistakenly thinking they are looking at the gospel truth, it's actually just a video that was constructed by predicting where the ball would land, made long before it landed. Whatever expertise they have would have us covered for answers related to the physics! I wonder if it's a particular branch of physics?
     

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