The sky has finally fallen...

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by ctjcad, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Please read my quote 417. I have corrected myself.
     
  2. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    gold people. gold! lol. ;)
     
  3. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Broke Omama is a typical US CEO with a MBA degree from online university. He can see the problem. Just tell the people who report to him. Fix it and get back to me. Has no idea, no direction and no detail.
    He is a politician made by Chicago machine. He keep trying to play Chicago style politics in DC. That prob will work if he did a few more terms in the Senate. Learn how congress play political game. Look how many term did JFK did. JFK was a rep from 1946 then run for senator in 1952. Served 8 years as senator.
    Also, guess who voted against debt ceiling in 2006 and asking to raise now? He argue time is different now. Yes, the time is different from yesterday to today, from 11:00 to 12:00.
    I have no problem to expire Bush tax cut (not just to wealthy, but to return to old code for every one) but welfare programs cut has to be done too. Everyone should share the pain, that is Bull Sh*t Obama said. Then do so. Not just say so, Why increase tax on the corp? If you raise 1% tax, corp will just increase price 1% or cut 1% workforce (this is just a simple idea. in reality, the impact could be even more, not too much less) to (1) maintain the profit or to (2) keep the door open. Would you call these tax increase on every one (1) job killer (2)?
    Hope and change? Hope for the better and change for the worse.
     
  4. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Gold Finger, I presume?
     
  5. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    I think its a vicious cycle. corp has no ceiling in terms of profit. how much is enough? so, cutting cost is the only way. too bad. Something is wrong with the 'sky's the limit' model. ;) It feeds the rich and greed just 'a little too much'. ;)

    Just like in some other small country where when you voted them in, they raise their own salary to oblivion. Am sure you know which country it is. That's why they only have 60% majority left. Next election, I see less. ;)
     
  6. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    :p..this is what he said in 2006 on U.S. Public debt as a first time Senator prior to voting:
    March 20, 2006: He said: “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and
    grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
    http://rpc.senate.gov/public/_files/alternativestothedebtlimitincreasev20.pdf

    fast forward 5 yrs later and apparently he regretted saying and vetoing for that (that his vote was a political move):
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20052875-503544.html

    Simply unqualified, clueless on how to handle economy..
     
  7. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Interesting artical to read.
    http://news.yahoo.com/govt-health-tab-hit-4-6-trillion-2020-070830567.html

    Please note the 2 paragraphs.

    Many of the newly insured people under the health care law will be younger and healthier, so they cost less. Over a million young adults under age 26 have already gained coverage through their parents' insurance. Millions more will get insurance when the law's big coverage expansion kicks off in 2014.
    That year, health care spending will jump by 8 percent. But over the 2010-2020 period covered by the estimate, the average yearly growth in spending will be only 0.1 percentage point higher than without Obama's overhaul. Most of the newly insured are not expected to require much pricey hospital care, generally needing only doctor visits and prescription drugs.

    So, where is the saving? If you have a car that is broken and can only di 25mph. After fix you can now go 26mph, is it a fix while you need to drive 100 mile in 2 hr?

    Hope and change.
     
  8. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    I have read this thread (and the sky is falling oldie) with greate interest, and I get somewhat curios about how Silenthart and Ctjcad think USA should fix its economic problem? Do you really think that massive overspending compared to what is produced in your country is primarily caused by poor leadership by Obama?? Is that your view, or did I missunderstand?

    Where (if) you think cuts should be made to balance the budget? Public healthcare (793 billons)?, Military (689 billions)?, Social Security (600 billions)?, Homeland Security (57 billions)?, Central Intelligence (55? billions), Other mandatory spending (for example, federal civilian and military retirement benefits, Food Stamps, unemployment compensation, and veterans’ benefits... 400 billions). discretionary spendings (like education grants, housing, highways, and national parks etc, 550? billions?)... Cost of bailouts? etc?

    I am Curios..

    /Twobeer
     
    #428 twobeer, Jul 28, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  9. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Deleted (double-post)

    /Twobeer
     
    #429 twobeer, Jul 28, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  10. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Camon, just spend it. The world will be happy ever after. More jobs created and nobody gets hurt. If not, many already hurted.. hurted...since day 1 of deficit. lol. ;)
     
  11. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    I'm just still wondering why this debt ceiling stuff is dragged into political drama. I don't know who's to blame, the system or the politicians? Both ways I just don't understand the purpose of it all, it's totally not needed. Even Boehner does not even have enough vote from his own party, how funny is that? And now the world have to share this heavy burden of this crappy thing.
     
  12. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    its a movie. malaysian calls it 'wayang'. ;) another word is 'if you look serious, you will be an important person'. lol ;)
     
  13. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    Every "Wayang" must have a "Dalang", unfortunately this US drama don't have a "Dalang", so who's running the show? No one. How scarry is that? LOL
     
  14. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    Maybe uncle Sam need to phone Steven Speilberg to get advice on how to stage a happy ending
     
  15. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    yeah. good idea. ;)
     
  16. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ..thank you for your interest, twobeer, since i know you're from Europe and have probably experienced the same tense moments before us (e.g. Ireland, Spain)..

    ..if you read the U.S. history and if you've read earlier, it (the debt/deficit) all started much earlier on, way earlier than OWEbama, Dubya, Bubba Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon tenures (should i go on?)..Basically just around WWI (during or after); everytime the U.S. went into war, the Congress would raise the debt-ceiling..it would continue on, into after the Great Depression (then the New Deal; SS and Medicare/Medicaid, they all started as programs "to benefit the people for the long term" but got out of control and the politicians used those 2 entitlement programs for their politicial benefit) then into WW2..
    For OWEbama, he and his Dems led Congress (they actually controlled the govt. purse during Dubya's last couple of yrs) basically made the spending worse (i'm sure you've read all the reports out there)..
    IMO, Right now, there's no realistic way to fix it and no way to bring it back to pre-debt/deficit period (that's answer to your 2nd query), even if the Congress all of a sudden raise the tax rate to 100% for every individual/corporations...If they cut spending 100%, there'll be more than a massive protest on the street..
    *Here's an ideal way to fix it~it comes down to the Congress themselves:
    There's only 1 thing which can simultaneously eliminate the deficit, pay down the debt, cut taxes and build a reserve fund for emergencies.
    And that is for the Congress to use their income. They get about $2 tril per year.
    If they would just reserve $.06 of each dollar, they can use 3 cents to pay down the debt and 3 cents to cut taxes and build reserve funds for emergencies.
    If they do that every yr, they can pay down the debt eventually..but nah, that ain't happening..

    What's gonna happen, yes, 1 world monetary system coming up (since debt will keep piling up)..
     
    #436 ctjcad, Jul 29, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  17. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    :p..there's already panic and chaos at the White House as of today (another press conference)..i guess Broke doesn't want to be the 1st default prez in U.S. history..:p

    What do you really think? Do you think it's okay for U.S. to go into default, since even if the govt. raises the debt ceiling by the 11th hr, the U.S. credit score rating will be hit anyway?..
     
  18. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Dear Master TB,
    Thank you for posting your thought and giving me the opportunity to reply. I would like to have this over 2 beers. But the distance is a little issue. Anyway, here is my opinion. (just like @sshole, everybody has one. Just mine stink more than others).
    1) Broke Obama did not started the deficit. The 10+ presidents before him did. On top of the the whole thing, it become worse. He will claim he is not the cause of a lot of problems, he inherited them. the wishful thinker voted him in believed he will fix the problem. I did not vote for him. If you ask me, Will Johnny Mc will do better? I will say not worse. At lease we will have a inflation with econ that is tanking, not deflation with econ that is tanking and I have less money to spend.
    I personally think his over spending in the wrong areas the main cause of the deficit going out of control. I have mentioned before, his spending on infrastructures/shuffle ready projects are waste of money. If he just dive up the money and give them to each one of the tax payers, people would a)spend the money, b)save them in the bank c)invest in stock market or d)put in under the mattress. a,b and c will all help the econ. d) is just stupid because you loose value of your money.
    2) He has no experience and no clear direction. All he does is point out the obvious. Any body with some brain can do that. We need him or people under him to make right decision and direction to fix the economy. Till now he only tell people he want to have this problem fixed. He tell congress he want to have a balanced approach, please tell me, how balance? What is he welling to cut? How much? Nothing! he jsut call meeting and tell congress to do it. Sorry Mr. President, separation of powers. Congr@ss does not work for you.
    These are just start of no leadership issue.

    Regarding your question on how to fix the deficit. Here is what I would propose.
    1) Expire the Bush tax cut, not just on the wealthy, but everyone that was affected. Cut the food stamps and other welfare program by 5%. Every one has to suffer on this. He can easily do so by letting it expire. If he is a man, just take it and raise the tax for everyone.
    2) Either repeal the obama care or do it right by the book. Start by revoking antitrust exemption of health insurance comp. set the basic coverage every insurance company should offer with the rate that will have combine ratio of 95% (ie for every$ in premium, you spend $0.95 on claim or expenses) for open market to compete. Also, actually cut the payment by 40% to doc and hospitals as the medicare law intended to do. Or you go all the way like EU country, national health plan and every one has same thing to begin and every doc and hospital must take this plan. I can buy supplemental for better care if I can afford it.
    3) Actually fix the SS by making the realistic assumptions on the life exp and other variables. Not just some number politicians tell the actuaries to over write.
    4) Actually cut back on the military spending. Not just number game saying money saved from ending the war. Those are just BS.
    5) cost of bailouts? they are money he and bush pissed down the toilet, they are gone and nothing you can do now. Just tax all capital gain as regular income. He is at mercy of congr@ss on this.
    6) give me an option of pay my future tax now with interest. Gov can use it to pay down debt now. I can pay less tax in the future.

    There are people who know what kind of person Obama is when he is in IL. many people in IL feel he is just like another IL politicians, just a crook.

    I do value your opinions, please feel free to comment any of my point.

    Have a nice (badminton) weekend.

    SH.
     
  19. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Also, one more point. I fault Obama for pointing out the obvious. Only vaguely speak of solution and can not even get the right thing done.
     
  20. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    Boehner proposal passed the house, so what's next? Will democrats kill it and come up with something? And so do we ever get this ceiling lifted?
     

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