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Time invested to practice a single stroke

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Udbhav, Jul 13, 2019 at 1:46 PM.

  1. Udbhav

    Udbhav New Member

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    How much time does a player invest to practice a single stroke ie. to make it perfect.

    Example:- If a player X was to practice drops today , how much time would he put in to practice them, also do players practice different strokes on different days or all strokes on one day .
     
  2. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    Have you ever done the same drill for an hour? Like, literally play only drop shots for an hour?

    Most people will rapidly lose focus when doing the same drill over and over again. It is much more efficient to do 10x2 minutes sets, alternating between feeder and trainee, rather than doing 20 minutes straight and then feeding for another 20. Doing something else gives your brain the time to reflect on the quality of the last drill.

    But even if you're constantly resting in between iterations, your quality tends to drop after some time. Therefore, in a typical 90 or 120 minutes of training, there will usually be 1-3 different topics (e.g. drop/low doubles serve/frontcourt footwork), each with 1-3 different variations or related exercises (e.g. first drop while somebody throws a shuttle, then being fed shuttles, and finally dropping with one flying shuttle).

    So most training sessions include a balance of different tasks. It makes much more sense to train 1/3 athletics 1/3 drop 1/3 serve for 3 session rather than doing 1 session of athletics (which is impossible; nobody can maintain their top speed for 90 minutes), 1 session for drops, and 1 session of serves only.

    In summary, a good training session mixes topics so that you don't do the same thing all the time, but still have enough time to focus one a specific shot or technique. In addition, many training sessions include a dedicated section where you quickly iterate over all the shots (I prefer drive/push – clear – drop – smash – serve/netplay) within 10-20 minutes.
     
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  3. Udbhav

    Udbhav New Member

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    Could you please help me chalk out a daily training plan?

    Also is 1 hr practice enough or do I have to practice more to perfect my strokes.
    How much time should I invest to practice my footwork and 6 corners drill?
    In the above post you mentioned about drops and its variation, so do I have to do the 10*2 mins method once every session or multiple times per session.
    Also apart from drops, can the 10*2 mins method be used for clears and smash(2 mins for front to back court clear followed by 2 mins of back to back court clear and alternating)
    In the above post if for example player X trains for 60 mins then he should invest 20 mins for drops a(all its 3 variations) 20 mins for front court footwork( all its 3 variations and exercises) and its variations and 20 mins for low doubles serve and its variations and exercise.
    Or you mean that
    Player X should invest 20 mins for each variation of drop , 20 mins for each variation of footwork a(20 mins for each exercise of footwork) 20 mins for each variation of serve(ie 20 mins for each exercise)?
     
    #3 Udbhav, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:18 PM
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019 at 12:49 AM
  4. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    You should be aware that is impossible to get really good without the help of a coach. Without a coach, many people will not progress much at all.

    Before you start repeating a drill, you must ensure that your technique is correct. If you're just training dropshots all day and your technique has major deficiencies, you will ingrain the bad technique, which must be unlearned later. That's why a coach is so important, because they will point out. Very few players are gifted to be able to just feel whether their technique is correct, and understand technique just by looking at a good player.

    Then, set your goals for the next 3-6 months. What do you (or your coach) think you need to improve most? This will be what you train in the main sessions. Again, it does not make sense to have too many goals, and goals should be divided among multiple categories. For example, these are my current goals:

    Overhead shots
    • During the smash, namely hit the shuttle a little bit higher. Result can be measured by fewer smashes into the net.
    • Many of my smashes lack power. Look at the kinetic chain and angle of the racket during contact.
    • Get a consistently correct form for my backhand clear, especially behind the body.
    Underhand shots
    • Work on long smash defense, specifically action and correct wrist angle.
    • My short doubles serve to the center of the court should become more consistent, even against strong opponents who attack even slightly high serves.
    Footwork
    • Once able (I've been sick/injured for quite a while), get into the rhythm of footwork again – I feel my technique was reasonably good, but before I start improving anything again, I must be able to physically do 10x 2x6 corners.
    • In singles defense, my reach is often insufficient.
    • Work on split-step, so that I can reasonably got to every direction in every situation. (I've found in games I often anticipate too early where to go).
    Athletics
    • As described above, safely and sanely start improving to the point that I have the general fitness and stamina.
    • In order for sickness prevention, get better stamina. Do low-intensity exercises like a comfortable jog.
    Core / injury prevention
    • Once able, recover from my back injury.
    • Strengthen back, and get into the habit of regular core/injury prevention training.
    • Look for better badminton shoes.
    Strategy & Tactics & Mindset (This is short for me because I feel I'm already quite good here)
    • Play some singles matches to regain a feel for the general singles rhythm.
    Lifestyle
    • Do everything to recover from my current injury, maybe additional training with healthcare professionals.
    • Get enough sleep every day so I stay healthy.
    • Adapt my diet to non-training days, to lose some weight.

    You can take the categories from this template, but your points will certainly be totally different. Be careful not to include too flashy stuff. If you ask the stereotypical 12 year-old boy, they will want a faster smash, work on their jump smash, do a sliced drop from a smash movement, move faster to the smash, and play a backhand smash. While there's nothing wrong with improving flashy shots, you can bet a player who would exclusively follow this program will not be successful. Many of the points in your plan should sound quite boring.

    If you don't know what exactly needs to be improved, you can also add an outcome. For example, since too many of my smashes go into the net, I maybe need to work on my footwork so that I'm in a better position, or cleanse my pre-hit technique from unnecessary loops, or something else. In practice, it's often a combination of factors anyway.


    Now you should evaluate how much time and facilities you have available. This can range from 5 minutes at the bus stop to 3x3 hours in an olympic-level center with not only professional badminton coaches, but athletic & mindset coaches as well as medical personal to help you recover in case of injuries.
    Most people fall somewhere in the middle. For a hobbyist player, 1 hour of focused training a week is good, although a 90-120 minutes set would be better. If you aim to play in higher leagues, you will almost certainly need more. Top-level athletes train at least 2x2 hours for 5 days a week (often 3x2 hours or 4x90 minutes, and tournaments or at least basic training on the weekends), although not all of it is in the hall.

    With your goals and your time options, you can start making a basic schedule. For example, do 30 minutes of core/athletics every morning, and do in-hall training every Tuesday 19:00-21:00 and Thursday 18:30-20:00. You can also add playing (or as one might call it, match training) into this schedule, although it should not be confused with training. That's not to say that playing is not important to improve; on the contrary it is mandatory to have plenty of time to translate the stuff you learned in training to an actual match. But unless you are extraordinarily gifted, you will need focused training to improve your technique, and not improve much if at all by playing alone.


    Every badminton (as opposed athletics) training session is bound by the same template: There will be a off-court warmup of 10-15 minutes (light running, maybe stretching, activation with quick movements, maybe some shadow badminton), then an on-court warmup (as mentioned above, 10-20 minutes), and maybe some matches or a cooldown afterwards. You'll note that out of the original 90 or 120 minutes, this tends to leaves a core of no more than 60 minutes (maybe a little bit more for professional players).

    This core of 60 minutes can now be filled with training sessions, if possible from your goals above. If you're training in a larger group, you'll often do stuff that's not on your goals. That won't hurt, at least as long as the group is not expecting you to have basics you don't. These 60 minutes should be divided into 2 or 3 blocks. For example, on a given day we could do 30 minutes of dropshots, 20 minutes of mixed doubles strategy, and 10 minutes of athletics.

    If you are doing only one training session per week, it's fine to repeat the same blocks every week for a couple of months. If you're doing more training sessions per week, you will probably want to balance it a bit. Generally, out of the above categories in the goals, you should pick 2 or three categories, and then pick individual points from then: As I wrote above, it's much more effective to spread out athletics or footwork.

    Now for a given day, you have a training plan that reads for example:
    1. 10 minutes warmup, consisting of different running forms (straight / sideways / sidesteps interspersed / backwards / lunges. My tip: do it with a racket and mimick shots) and stretching
    2. 5 minutes activation
    3. 10 minutes drives & pushes with partner
    4. 5 minutes clears.
    5. (Usually you would also have drops and smashes here, but since today's topic is drops, will start right with that. Until here, it's the same every day.)
    6. 12 minutes drops #1: Do short singles drops while standing while shuttles are thrown, coach corrects form, with focus on pre-hit technique. You will do 3x2 minutes of dropping yourself interspersed with 3x2 minutes of throwing shuttles.
    7. 12 minutes drops #2: Variation: Same as before, but now with feeding. You will do 2 minutes dropping, 2 minutes feeding, 2 minutes dropping, 2 minutes feeding, 2 minutes dropping, 2 minutes feeding.
    8. 6 minutes drops #3: Variation: Play lift-drop-block with partner.
    9. 8 minutes low doubles serve. Coach focuses on form. You will serve 2 minutes from the right, 2 minutes from the left, 2 minutes from the right, and then 2 minutes from the left.
    10. 12 minutes doubles serve with receiver. Focus on reading the receiver's body and racket position. You will serve 3 minutes from the right, receive 3 minutes from the right, serve 3 minutes from the left, and receive 3 minutes from the left.
    11. 5 minutes scissor-jump footwork demo and explanation by coach.
    12. 10 minutes scissor-jump, with you pausing by yourself. Coach corrects form.
    13. 8 minutes of scissor-jump into drop. You feed 2 minutes, drop 2 minutes, feed 2 minutes, drop 2 minutes.
    14. 10 minutes of matching: You play halfcourt singles, but the doubles service court is out, so all your shots must go short or long.
    15. 5 Minutes of cooldown & stretching.

    Your questions seem overly focused on the precise amount of time. As long as it's reasonable, it's not that important. You just should be trying to not do the same thing for more than ~10 minutes.

    I hope my example of a training session in this post gives you a much clearer picture of how it should look like. Variations of exercises should be sensible, progressing from simple to more complex. Note that in the above training session, you progressed from very simple drop drills to free gameplay with lots of drops at the end.
     
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  5. Udbhav

    Udbhav New Member

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    1. 12 minutes drops #1: Do short singles drops while standing while shuttles are thrown, coach corrects form, with focus on pre-hit technique. You will do 3x2 minutes of dropping yourself interspersed with 3x2 minutes of throwing shuttles.
    2. 12 minutes drops #2: Variation: Same as before, but now with feeding. You will do 2 minutes dropping, 2 minutes feeding, 2 minutes dropping, 2 minutes feeding, 2 minutes dropping, 2 minutes feeding.
    Just for clarification:-
    In point 1, ie in standing drop where exactly should I be standing,
    At the T,
    Screenshot_20190714-182002-01.jpeg

    Or at the end points of the court,
    Screenshot_20190714-182016-01.jpeg
    And return the shuttle in front of service line at the corners .
    In point 2,
    Does dropping imply that my partner would feed/throw the shuttle in front of short service line and I would return the shuttle in front of short service line (at corners) and feeding implies that my partner feeds shuttle at the end of long service line and I would return the shuttle in front of short service line (at corners).
    Or
    While dropping I will hit the shuttle in front of short service line and while feeding I will feed the shuttle to my partner and he will hit drops to me in front of short service line.

    Also in above drills( not the standing drill) will I have to return back to centre of the court after hitting drops.

    Sorry for the trouble.
     
    #5 Udbhav, Jul 14, 2019 at 6:52 AM
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019 at 7:05 AM
  6. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    For a drop, you will always be standing in the backcourt, somewhere around the doubles service line. I think we need to clear up the basic shots first:
    [​IMG]
    • The clear is a high shot from the backcourt to the backcourt. There is a defensive clear which goes as high as you can (the longest-flying shot in badminton), and an offensive clear which flies flatter.
    • The smash is a fast shot going downwards from the backcourt to the mid/backcourt. We mainly distinguish stick smashes, which can be played quickly, from a full smash with more body movement, and from jump smashes where you are in the air.
    • A drop is a shot going downwards from the backcourt to the frontcourt. We distinguish faster/doubles drops from short/singles drops.
    • A flat shot is a push (going to midcourt) or drive (faster, lands in backcourt).
    • A netshot from the frontcourt is called a block or net drop.
    • A netshot from the frontcourt to the backcourt is called a lift (going as high as you can) or swip(going flatter).
    Here is the article where that picture comes from, and here is a video demonstrating the basic shots. If you want to read more, I strongly suggest the BWF Coaching Level 1 ebook.

    The technique for clear, smash, and drop is closely related. Commonly, those are called overhead shots. The technique for shots close to the net (lift/swip/block) is completely different. Commonly, those are called underhand shots. While you could train both blocks and drops in one session, that's not very typical.

    The idea of training is that you start with something really simple, then progressively expand the complexity until it works in a match. This helps because you can focus on a limited number of aspects first.

    Going forward after the drop is more complicated than not doing so. Therefore, as long as the other parts of the drop technique are nowhere close to correct, I wouldn't start with that. On the other hand, if your goal is to be ready after a drop shots, you would almost exclusively focus on going forward.


    And let me clarify something. The session plan I wrote above is an EXAMPLE. Do NOT perform it without adapting it to yourself.

    Training plans and individual drills must be designed with your current skills, deficits, and goals in mind. Maybe your short drop is already quite good in a match, then it would make zero sense to train it while standing. From your posts, I get the impression that you very much focus on the specific drills. That is the wrong way to design a session plan (let alone a longer-term training plan); you must start with your current skills, deficits, and goals. The drills will follow out of that organically.
     
    #6 phihag, Jul 14, 2019 at 7:29 AM
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019 at 12:17 AM
  7. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    Never ever practice anything standing. Always move to the shuttle. Anything else will result in taking shots unusual and cramped in unnatural way. Especially netshots. Also a 2 minutes feed can be really exhausting. It's better to train 10 shuttles at full speed instead of 70+ over 2 minutes with fatigue.
     
  8. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    While this is a good guideline indeed, when a player has not even the very basics down yet, or wants to improve something very specific, it is much better to focus on one thing at a time. That's why even professionals do train while standing, with only minimal footwork.

    But of course you are correct in clarifying that standing drills should never involve both feet being on the ground the whole time. The basic movement should always be there.

    If you're running all over the court, 2 minutes indeed builds stamina rather than technique. With getting fed a new shuttle every 5-10 seconds while standing roughly in the target zone, it seems reasonable to me.

    In general, you have to balance the number of total repetitions with the overhead of constantly switching. Even if the 11th repetition is not as worthwhile as the previous ones, if this allows you to do more repetitions in a given session, it may still be worth it.

    The precise format of a drill depends very much on its goal as well as the player.
     
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  9. Udbhav

    Udbhav New Member

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    By throwing do you mean:-



    And by feeding :-


    Also while feeding i will be doing the above method for my partner and not the other way round.

    If throwing does imply throwing the shuttle by hand and me hitting the drops then it can be quite difficult to throw the shuttle all the way to the back court for me to hit drops and also me throwing the shuttle all the way to back court for him to hit drops.

    In short, please clarify what throwing and feeding exactly means.
     
  10. Udbhav

    Udbhav New Member

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    1. 12 minutes drops #1: Do short singles drops while standing while shuttles are thrown, coach corrects form, with focus on pre-hit technique. You will do 3x2 minutes of dropping yourself interspersed with 3x2 minutes of throwing shuttles.
    2. 12 minutes drops #2: Variation: Same as before, but now with feeding. You will do 2 minutes dropping, 2 minutes feeding, 2 minutes dropping, 2 minutes feeding, 2 minutes dropping, 2 minutes feeding.

    Also just like the above 2 drills could you help me with drills to practice other shots like smash,clear,push,block and lift.

    You also said that it does not make sense to practice drops and blocks in one session. So is it better to practice underhand shots and overhand shots in different sessions rather than in the same session.
     
  11. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    Feeding means playing a shuttle with a racket, so that a player can perform a specific shot. If you're training drop shots, the feeder plays a high serve. The player plays a drop shot. That's it.

    Throwing means that somebody throws the shuttle without any other equipment, like in your first two videos. One person stands close to the player, but outside the court. They throw a shuttle high in the optimal hitting zone for a drop, and the player plays a drop. If desired/needed, the thrower can also stand on some kind of elevated platform. That's it.

    Again, I must stress that any drills must be adapted to the players. Throwing only makes sense if:
    • The feeder cannot feed cleanly, and no coach is available to feed OR
    • The player is having major trouble moving in the right position OR
    • The player needs to focus on some part of their technique that they are unable to do while running.
    If none of the above applies, a feeding variant is preferable, and you could introduce additional complexity by forcing the player to move more. It all depends on the player's current skills and goals.

    As I keep stressing again and again, drills follow from the player's skills and goals. If you simply copy the above session plan, it is unlikely to help you. Instead, you MUST determine your skills and goals first, preferably with a coach.

    Please don't copy the drills I wrote verbatim. That will not help you.

    As I keep repeating, drills follow from skills and goals, not the other way around.

    My bad. I should have been more clear: It is perfectly fine and actually quite common to practice both overhead and underhand shots in the same session.

    Drops and blocks specifically I would tend to not perform both in the same session for didactic reasons:
    • The outcome of both is quite similar, and that could confuse some players.
    • Drops and blocks are both soft finesse shots. I prefer mixing both a power shot with a soft shot in a given training session.
    • For kids, both can be kind of boring shots.
    But these are weak reasons and more personal preference than fundamental aspects of training. If the player's goals include improving drops and blocks, then it's totally fine to train both in the same session. In fact, in the above session plan the final game is playing on just forecourt and backcourt, without the middle box, in which both drops and blocks feature heavily.
     

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