Too slow shuttles - The german problem

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by ucantseeme, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    I agree with you. I don't judge a shuttle before I tested the speed. Regardless if tipped or not, it doesn't matter. Normally I have the same shuttles at the court and as long as it is a home game or club night. But even in my club I observed that some prefer to tip as default while like me use the speed test. It seems to me that some want to slow down the game or want to prevent hitting out.

    I'm really curious how @phihag would communicate/debate these at a league game. As player and as umpire. I did always this "Hau den Lukas"-method and offered all involved players before the game to test the shuttle according to the rules. What I often came across was the fact that the shuttle landed towards the slower side of the acceptable window and even then it was "judged as too fast" which is indeed wrong.

    Experienced the same with Babolat 2. Especially if you play friendly, nice and fair opponents, I feel very bad to start a debate and count peas in terms of shuttles. I feel like I'm the weird guy who **** people up, but I just wanna play a game according to the rules to have a fair game for both sides, not more.

    Not knowing is a mistake by me. I mean they don't give it the importance for the subjective shuttle speed for a game and nego on it. Also the execution is a different story. Have often seen that some are doing a forehand drive/low overhead at hip height to add power. Also positioning is often a problem.


    It's nice to hear any point of view and struggle. I played with people from all over the world and especially the german /european ones seem to prefer slower shuttles. It seems that some people never learned to dose their force and use this as tactic/strategy to slow down the game. I feel sometimes really cheated on this. If I hit long, I need to adjust my stroke, not the shuttle.
     
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  2. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    From a law perspective, it's clear: A test has been done (by @ucantseeme), and the result was that the shuttles are in the acceptable range. There's really nothing more to discuss. If the test was done improperly, another player can perform it. But given that these players you play against cannot produce any other test, I'm not sure what their argument is.

    Note that if both players agree, unless they are playing at a very high-level tournament, they are free to agree to any other shuttle speed, including way too fast and way too slow. But that's not applicable here, since there is disagreement already.

    But remember that if you're playing without an umpire, you're playing for fun. And in a for-fun game, one should be more willing to compromise. So if the shuttle is straight on the doubles service line and barely lands within the acceptable range with tipping, then I would say that's fine, too.

    I'm surprised that everybody here seems to think that shuttles are too slow, especially at the moment in Germany. Just this weekend, I've had multiple players tip Yonex speed 3 every second feather, and some considering tipping every feather. And these were players who can certainly test shuttles (1st and 2nd Bundesliga).
     
    #102 phihag, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  3. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    I disagree: On a given day, especially within hours, high-level shuttles tend to fly quite similar. After all, the top tournaments rarely test more than once per day. In a tournament, if I've found the best speed of my shuttles for that day, and if these shuttles all fly uniform and are of the same speed designation, I just tip without testing if the opponents agree. But then, I play at a lower level where not all opponents know about tipping, shuttle speeds, how to test etc., and many tend to just agree to anything, provided they don't have to tip themselves ;) .

    In general, I think a good player should be able to adapt to almost any shuttle speed. I admire some (anecdotally often Indonesian) players who just play – and win – with anything with a feather on it.
    Opponent brings strangely fast shuttles? No problem! They'll make everybody in the hall hear their smashes.
    Opponent wants to tip an already-slow shuttle every 2 feathers? Not a problem! Now the same guys leisurely stand and intentionally lift too short so their opponents can tire themselves out smashing.
    Shuttle looks like the discard pile at many clubs? Great! Just play a little bit safer, the opponent will make the error on their own.
     
  4. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    Which is almost what I said.
    Adapting a high defense to a weirdly slow shuttle is not that easy. Especially when the shuttle slows down during play, so you have too adapt to a new speed every time. We're not pros. We don't switch shuttles for every rally. That's one point where a comparison to pros fails.
    Another one is that the supply of shuttles will be from the same charge for pros. You cannot assume that for my level, that's why I said one shuttle per new tube should be tested.
     
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  5. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    If 4 beginner come to court and none of them can hit it above the acceptable window the shuttle is "okay" for their standard of play.

    That reached window by my opponents and my partner in the speed test can be different due technique. If we do the speed test and hit the same shuttle the beginner use above and agree to tip every 4th to get it according to the rules inside the window of acceptable speed we also have shuttle which is "okay" for our standard of play.

    If Mads Pieler Kolding and his teammates would do the speed test they would judge the untipped and our every 4th tipped as too fast based on the result they achieve inside the testing and tipp all, they also have a "okay" shuttle inside the rules for their standard. Even at the same time in the same gym.

    I understand the law that the speed test is related to the level and who test.

    As long as all 4th players on court did the test and the shuttle is too slow by the test the shuttle is too slow. I'm not talking about the case that Tim and Lukas can't hit it inside the window and Peter and Björn can and Tim and Lukas start to argue that the shuttle is too slow.

    If even the guy who hit it further than all others on court can't get it inside they are too slow. An even then I experience that someone tip and that's I'm gonna talking bout. I had often played shuttles which land in the midcourt during the speedtest of all involved players on court. If I can't reach it and my opponent can, I would accept it.
     

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