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TOTAL BWF SUDIRMAN Cup 2019 : Quarterfinal - FINAL (23-26 May)

Discussion in '2019 Tournaments' started by CLELY, May 22, 2019.

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  1. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    Even the best slipped up once for a while!
    And I don't mean the Japanese team, it's BC most loved reporter/analyst.
     
  2. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Unobjective based on what ? Besides, I didn't draw final conclusions on that particular Momota defeat, devastating as it is; in fact my praise of Shi Yuqi in his thread was somewhat guarded, there are still a long way ahead for all these rivals. Just because I didn't mention the two INA players, AG and JC, whom I've singled out before as the up-and-coming stars-in-the-making ?

    Of course, we know there are several other players who can beat Momota this past one year or so but it remains the fact that he is still the most consistent and the player to beat, not forgetting he's been WR1 and reigning WC until now. However, Like I've said, now that the OG QF has begun, I would be expecting the unexpected.

    Btw, how objective is your last statement ?
     
    #1302 Justin L, May 28, 2019
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  3. minions

    minions Regular Member

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    Everyone can be slipped or wrong. Even the best analyst can have the wrong prediction.

    Talking about the players alone, even the most dominating players can have a very bad day. KM lost badly against SYQ and TTY lost to a youngster in this SC. Before that, minions inexplicably lost horribly in the BAC final.
     
  4. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    is there any player in the last 20 years or ever can be as good as LD's best, I'm talking about the 2008 OLY final?
     
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  5. Martynas

    Martynas Regular Member

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    Actually very do agree that the biggest surprise was Vladimir Malkov, his training with good chinese club seems to be working miracles, so here you go every european badmintonist now knows the path to success - just go and join some decent club in asia :)
     
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  6. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    For the first part, why not? Didn't I say Momota is the player everyone wants to beat ?

    The second part is hard to say, esp when the 35-year-old LCW could still beat Momota in the MAS Open 2018, and from 2018 until now, how many losses were inflicted on him and by how many different players ?

    And for the Rio'16 Olympics, I doubt anybody at that time can stop Chen Long who was at his pinnacle whereas both LCW and LD were already past their prime, you just have to look at how he swept all opposition aside, including LCW in the gold medal match. I suggest you watch all his Rio'16 matches without preconceptions to convince yourself; to me, he played his best badminton then, better than when he won the two world championships in 2014 and 2015, overcoming the same fearsome opponent, Lee CW.

    Unfortunately, since Rio'16 and after his six-month break, he's been struggling to regain that form until now. Now that he's 30 years in age, for such a physical player like him, it can only get harder. Realistically speaking,these two years may be his last chance to win another major title, the upcoming Basel WC and/or the Tokyo 2020 OG next year, but, frankly, not looking good for him so far.
     
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  7. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Simple answer, none.

    Morten Frost would be the first to agree with you, and I'm sure many others too. In fact,I also think Lin Dan at LOG'12 was nearly as good, less aggressive, more all-rounded, more mature and experienced; at the same time, LCW improved significantly to close the gap between them though Lin Dan still had the edge over him.

    In my opinion, Lin Dan and LCW's rivalry is the greatest in badminton history.
     
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  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Well, for LCW we know why and what happened, no elaboration needed, I suppose. If KM were born in the same era as Lin Dan and LCW, what do you think ?

    I concede, Momota's BAC'18 title win is more convincing but it's the WC that we're concerned about in my response to MF's post unless we include the BAC as a major too (I personally would like to as most of the best players in the world are from Asia) but the rest of the world, the Europeans especially and with some justification, won't buy it.

    No disagreement with the rest of your post, Momota is still the best in the world, very much the player everyone wants to beat at the moment and has been for quite a while.

    By the way, one small but relevant point, during the heyday of Lin - Lee, they mostly lost to each other with at most a handful others (3 to 5?) able to spoil their party in any one year - Peter Gade can testify to that and fully empathize with his contemporaries for he was a 'victim' too as he admitted.
     
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  9. indrg

    indrg Regular Member

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    On the heel of China's Sudirman Cup success, now Zhang Jun is targeting the glory day of CHN sweeping all 5 Gold Medals in 2020 Olympic:

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-05/25/c_138088968.htm

    Does he have the players to back it up or he is just talking nonsense to boost his players' confidence.
     
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  10. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    it is always good to "aim". from the article, even Zhang Jun isn't confident / sure how many they'd get. but never hurt to aim high. they certain has a decent chance at all the events, the Olympics is a funny event, lots of nerves, lots of surprise and upsets.
     
  11. ownz.uno

    ownz.uno Regular Member

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    sound exactly like MAS before, all on LCW shoulder
     
  12. Gigabit

    Gigabit Regular Member

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    At least Japan got better ws, wd than Malaysia

    Sent from my COL-L29 using Tapatalk
     
  13. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Japan relied maybe too heavily on AK and KM to win their respective singles. If that happened, then Japan would have a stronger chance to win the SC as their WD and XD are quite reliable and the wins from their teammates would have boosted their morale.

    But it did not happen, so all hopes for a Japan win fizzled out. With China playing on home ground and with tremendous vocal support, China's players were naturally more inspired, rather than pressurized, to win.

    KM was a pale shadow of himself in G2 and the decider, allowing Shi to overpower with his attacking game. So while KM hardly attacked he became the lame duck. Shi had succeeded in applying "Attack is the best form of defense" to overwhelm KM in the end.
     
  14. kurako

    kurako Regular Member

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    In June's publication of Badminton Magazine (a Japanese magazine published on May 22, i.e., before the Sudirman Cup), there is a four-page interview of PJB, in which he candidly voices various concerns in the run-up to Tokyo 2020. Commenting on a couple of players, he mentioned that Momota, although top-level when it comes to ability and skills, needs to toughen up more mentally. Also, that some aspects in Momota's game are lacking (without specifying what they are). All the same, PJB claimed that he is not particularly worried, considering how focused Momota is on the Olympics.

    The only other player PJB commented on specifically was Okuhara. Here, he stated that although Okuhara has done relatively well to win a couple of 500 level tournaments since her return from injury, he feels that she has lost some of her hunger.
     
    #1314 kurako, May 29, 2019
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  15. Gigabit

    Gigabit Regular Member

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    Okuhara is not attached with any clubs... Will that affect her hunger to win?

    Sent from my COL-L29 using Tapatalk
     
  16. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    If we read the whole article carefully, assuming the translation is good, Zhang Jun actually sounded guarded, not affirmative .

    First, Zhang Jun said that "we're aiming for all five gold medals in the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. As for how many we'll actually get, it depends on the performance of our athletes." Fair enough, what most coaches with a relatively strong team would have said.

    Then, as the author pointed out - "However, Zhang began to elaborate these events in a cautious manner as he is too clear (-headed?) to make any clear-cut prediction."

    For example, as regards men's singles, Zhang seems to be more worried, saying that "players like Chen Long and Lin Dan, are still leading in our team, which means our young men's singles players still have a lot to learn, and are in a distance away to catch up with the best in the world." This is telling.

    Next is men's doubles where he sounded circumspect - there's the highest uncertainty in the men's doubles, yet China's best-placed Li Junhui and Liu Yuchen are only ranked third, next to Indonesian Marcus Fernaldi Gideon and Kevin Sanjaya Sukamuljo, and Japanese duo Takeshi Kamura and Keigo Sonoda.

    Even for mixed doubles which is China's strongest discipline, coach Zhang is still tight-lipped, saying that "I have worries in the mixed doubles. There's no sure bet during the Olympic Games."

    So, no, he is definitely more cautious, even worried than confident. As befitting his position as CBA President, in addition to head coach, he is diplomatic and careful with his words.
     
    #1316 Justin L, May 29, 2019
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  17. minions

    minions Regular Member

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    Not just better, but WAAAAYYYYY better. MAS WS and WD aren't even remotely close to the top ones.

    Any elaboration on this? I wonder if PJB ever tell this to her. Does NO realize this?

    She leaved her club so that she will be more prepared for Olympics, mainly for minimizing her chance of injury on her way to the Olympics. Personally, I don't think it affects her hunger to win. However, she probably doesn't try too hard to win, due to the injury reason above.
     
  18. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    If homeground advantage is so significant, how come it applies more to CHN players than others, why not INA, MAS, KOR, for example ? Say, at Incheon 2014 Asian Games, KOR managed to land only the men's team title, failing to capture the women's team and all the five individual disciplines.

    Just for the Sudirman Cup, of CHN's 11 triumphs six were won on foreign soil. Notably, KOR won four times, all overseas, and INA once on home soil. Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudirman_Cup#Result

    For the Thomas Cup, CHN won 9 out of 10 times on foreign lands, only once when held in Wuhan, China, 2012 but failed to do so in Guangzhou 2002 and Kunshan 2016. Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cup#Results

    For the Uber Cup, CHN won 14 times, 11 on foreign lands, only 3 on home soil in Guangzhou 2002, Wuhan 2012 and Kunshan 2016. Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uber_Cup#Results

    What I'm trying to say is while it's good to have homeground advantage and home support, it's purely psychological, differs from individual to individual (some thrive on it while others wither under the pressure of the burden of expectation irrespective of it) and hard to pinpoint its effect; therefore, I tend to see it as correlation does not imply causation rather than there is no correlation without causation.

    Take Shi Yuqi's case, thanks once again to CLELY for pointing out that all SYQ's six encounters with KM were in China of which he won only two, the WTF'18 and the Sudirman Cup'19.

    As for CHN MD Li/Liu , even Park Joo Bong admitted the CHN pair has an edge over either Kam/Son( a little more) or Endo/Watanabe.

    Perhaps, in Chen Yufei's case whose negative H2H records against Akane, 6-9, and 2-4 against Nozomi, can we say she rose to the occasion and/or played above herself in the Sudirman Cup final but let's not forget CYF has recently raised her game another level when she clinched the Fuzhou China Open last November and the All England this March immediately followed by the Swiss Open back-to-back, in the process also scalping the likes of Tai Tzu Ying, Carolina Marin, Nozomi Okuhara and Akane Yamaguchi , not to mention she has been world ranked two for some months now. So, in short, she does possess the ability to beat anyone on her day regardless of the environment or atmosphere.

    No doubt, home crowd support can buoy you up at certain moments but it can only do so much,ultimately, it depends on yourself more than any other external factor. Just my opinion.
     
  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    because those other countries didn't have the backup power of the ladies squad in many of those China victories.

    Home ground advantage is significant. Just look at football.
     
  20. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Yes, the conditions in China halls suit Chinese double players more too than others, as would Istora suits Indonesian players. And many more advantages playing on home ground. It doesn't matter how it meet the standard requirement, different conditions will favor different players.

    Another example would be Thailand's Uber team was strong to beat China last year in home ground. Don't think it would have been possible had it was held in China.
     
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