TOTAL BWF SUDIRMAN Cup 2019 : Quarterfinal - FINAL (23-26 May)

Discussion in '2019 Tournaments' started by CLELY, May 22, 2019.

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  1. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    You mean tennis? Very different comparison.
    A tennis match can go to as long as 3 hours or more. It stretches out into 6 games per set.
    Badminton is a sport where everything is packed within an hour with 3 games at most, ideally. We will risk taking out the 'essence' of what badminton is about. Or that's how I feel personally :)
     
  2. rhoder

    rhoder Regular Member

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    I don’t think it is viable to play matches on the exact same timing though. Most people don’t enjoy watching two good matches at the same time due to having to spread your focus, and audience satisfaction is important to drive revenues and popularity. But like Cunning Linguist said, make the time difference short enough for it to be a minimal factor. 7 hours the difference for the SF this Surdiman Cup is simply too long for no good reason.

    Momota’s fatigue is the result of several factors though. Japan’s lack of reliable MS no.2 unlike China, Japan’s poor luck of drawing Indonesia and thus facing a problematic matchup in Ginting, and finally the scheduling all contributed to Momota’s fatigue. That’s why for team competitions the depth of the team is as important as the quality of the first class players to cope with such circumstances, and that is what China excels at, so you’re right no doubt China is the better overall team. The scheduling of the event could be tweaked to give a higher chance to other nations though.
     
    #1342 rhoder, May 29, 2019
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  3. Cunning Linguist

    Cunning Linguist Regular Member

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    Wow, you've completely missed my point.o_O
    This has absolutely nothing to do with player selection within the teams. Of course the teams with more depths can switch up. More power to them. As you rightly say, this is about the best team, and a team with more depth will have more choices. This should be part of winning tournaments like these, no doubt.

    The issue is this:

    In both the 2017 and 2019 SC the losing side (China and Japan) had to
    • play three days in a row while their opponent had a break between QF and SF
    • switch from early to late session and back again three days in a row while the opponent had SF early and F slight later
    • deal with considerable less time to rest than the opponent (nearly 4 times less than in regular tournaments ahead of finals).
    Only if the BWF organises these tournaments like this. The TUC is done differently. There are still early and late sessions in the qf, but every team has to play on the same day and in the SF of both the Thomas and the Uber Cup, both SF ties start at the same time.

    This ensures that both the teams can be rewarded for greater depth while still keeping the schedule fair. The SC, as is, artificially creates a major advantage for one of the finalists.
     
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  4. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Well 7 hours make sense. Let's say a tie with all matches go the long distance, 1 hour per match. It's 5 hours in total. The crowds need time to take a break, have lunch/dinner or do some other things in between. So 2 hours in between the last match of the morning session and the first match of the afternoon session are sensible enough. You can never know how long a match will take.

    So in the end, as the organizer you will have to choose. Players happy or audiences happy? Profit wise, keeping the paying audiences happy is probably the organizer's top priority.
     
  5. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    I don't think I missed your pointo_O
    That was why I used the quotation when I said the team with better 'luck'. (Luck : lucky in draw, favored by the organizer, or all the conditions you can imagine). So even with the unfavorable conditions, the teams just have to rack their brain up to think up a strategy (including players selection) for each tie and hope for the best. Hard to say without knowing how the organizers do their schedule planning though, whether they have a fixed format for the whole tournament or they decide on it per daily basis.

    As I mentioned in the other post, the organizers probably were thinking of making more financial profits. Two sessions means the audiences have to buy two tickets = more money into the organizers and BWF :cool:
    And when I said it needed to be played at the same time, some has said it was not enjoyable to divide his focus for watching two matches simultaneously. So.. I guess there is hardly a win-win solution for this? :D
     
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  6. stanleyfm

    stanleyfm Regular Member

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    An easier solution for the SF - F rest time difference is actually to pull the start time of SF earlier, and push the start time of the F a bit later.

    For start, it is important for the F to have a night session instead of an afternoon session
    So, it should start at 18.00

    Then the 1st SF should start at 11.00 instead of a bit later, and the 2nd is at 18.00
    This way, it will also not cause lots of trouble for audiences in terms of having early lunch/late breakfast (~10.00), and early dinner (~17.00)
    All while the 2nd team will have almost the whole day on Sunday to rest and prepare mentally

    The Final will be finished quite late then, not really a big problem for the players since it a big event
    The only problem maybe on the audience in the hall, since it will be too late for preparing for Monday

    Maybe there should be a break day before SF-F? LOL

    The ideal condition can only be achieved when badminton has more money and audience to ignore the 'audience happiness' problem
     
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  7. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    It goes to show you didn't read my posts carefully which are in disagreements with those who claimed it played a big part, a strong advantage or even decisive; in short, generally those who make too much of home advantage. Are you one of them ? Go read all my related posts again, I never once claimed there's no such thing as home advantage, only that it's not that critical, mostly psychological and affects different people differently to varying degrees, that several CHN players have openly said they felt the burden of the pressure of expectation even more on home soil,etc.

    So, for all the tournaments held in INA at the Istora Senayan ,how many titles are won by INA with home advantage ?
     
  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Well, your original claim is : "That suggests a strong homecourt advantage, at least when it comes to finals."
     
  9. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Exactly, kwun, I couldn't agree with you more. Well said. That's why I opine we shouldn't make too much of homeground advantage when there are so many other more important factors/variables.
     
  10. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    And it showed that you didn't even bother to read everyone else's posts or understand them at all. :rolleyes:

    Read my post that said something like this : Playing in home ground is an advantage to all players. BUT whether the players could use the home advantage to their strength and win their matches or not is another matter.

    I just don't explain my points in lengthy posts, but if you still can't understand my point, let me try to elaborate it in a few points:
    - Many INA players suck at winning even though playing on home ground but CHN players don't disappoint that often.
    - Many home players feel a lot of pressure from the expectation but CHN players more often don't.
    - and so on and so on

    So in conclusion, many (and not all) CHN players know well how to use their home advantage to the most unlike other nation players. And that's not an accusation, just in case you will get all defensive again and reply with another long post. It's a praise.

    You should go "Yes, we are loaded. So what? You should all be grateful that CHN host all the tournaments or no one will want to hold them at all"
     
  11. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Agree, interesting point, good, except that you assumed I made that statistical conclusion when I was actually downplaying the role homeground advantage had on the outcome of the results.

    Like you said, statistically it's hard to argue one way or the other, and as kwun correctly pointed out there are many other variables involved.
     
  12. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Your statement in bold, isn't it the same as what I've said earlier in my other posts ?

    However, many CHN players from what I've gathered do feel a lot of pressure from the burden of expectation, the more so on home soil. Remember He Bingjiao at the Nanjing WC'18, she even complained the crowd cheering for her was to noisy ? Anyway, I don't wish to go into that.

    Actually, we aren't that in disagreements...so, never mind. I'm just interested in fruitful conversations, nothing I said was ever meant to be personal (unless ad hominem attacks are directed at me needlessly). Cheers.
     
  13. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Thumbs up, on the mark, rhoder.
     
  14. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Exactly. Don't know why you had to disagree with my post there and said I didn't understand your point. Just wondered why you always have to give out an essay (excuses or statistics or Idk) when you can do it in one or two sentences, especially when it has anything to do with CHN or your favorite players :confused:

    I said many (not all) CHN players, so exceptions like your instance and more were already included there.
     
  15. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    I think we should get rid of home advantage of major tournaments once and for all.

    There is a simple solution that BWF should be considering. From the knock-out stage they should pick a neutral venue has equal distance between the 2 teams. So, for this final between China and Japan the mid-distance between Beijing and Tokyo is 2100 km, Seoul, Korea is ideal. Obviously, there will be some teething problems when the mid-point between the 2 teams is in the middle of nowhere (e.g. Ocean). If Ireland meet USA at the knock out stage they need to find a venue on dry land with equal distance between the 2 capitals. Monrovia, Liberia is perfect distance-wise but apart from difficulty to source a badminton court there is the civil war to consider. So, for this match Perth in Australia is the ideal neutral ground.

    Problems solved, job done.
     
    #1355 AlanY, May 30, 2019
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  16. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Yay!

    And BWF should plant money trees:D
     
  17. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    I think it's best to keep the Sunday afternoon session for the Final and work it out from there.
     
  18. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    You make me smile, your tone, your emotions, quite revealing. :):D

    I am what I am, and you're telling people not to write too much (unless it agrees with you ?) - nobody forces you to read,simply ignore it if you wish. Tell that to @kwun, ask him what kind of forum he hopes BC becomes - extremely lively, full of diverse views and opinions, very useful and highly informative, replete with constructive debates, fruitful discussions, cordial and civil, fun and enjoyable, increasing participation and membership, where freedom of expression is allowed and encouraged but not abused, and so on and so forth.
     
    #1358 Justin L, May 30, 2019
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  19. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    :):):D:D. Wit and wisdom.
     
  20. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    I'm not telling you to not write much, it's entirely up to you. Honestly, I hardly read many of your long posts anymore because they all contain the same thing:p Just saying that you're making things more complicated and being out of context with those length. :D
     
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