TotalEnergies BWF WORLD Championships 2021 : R/64-Final (12-19 December)

Discussion in '2021 Tournaments' started by CLELY, Dec 11, 2021.

  1. Hassefar60

    Hassefar60 Regular Member

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    I already corrected you once that All England is not a sub standard tournament.. Don't make everything so black and white.
    terrynguyen121988 asked you who won AE in 1950. Let me remind you that in 1950 All England WAS considered the WC. There was no tournament more prestigious at that time or any time before it.
     
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  2. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    So sad. Not enough support. Camon guys. Show your brotherly love...

    Oh, will lky reward viktor also for making him the wc?

    https://chng.it/kjjc7sbF
     
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  3. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    AE is the oldest I think. Hence its given the credit to be the top or prestigious. Recently it wanes off due to discrimination and involvement in politics I think...

    I guess tournament valuation is subjected to the environment at that moment in time or perhaps a countrys perpective. Most americans dun give a hoot abt badminton. ;) in years to come, there will be a greater lindan. ;) He is sure a goat for now. ;) Good thing is everyone gets their voice heard. Respect. Dun get too stressed about it. You are not gg to win by being emotional. If you are not, then stfu and enjoy the read. Wakaka.

    Can someone refresh me on why wc doesnt offer prize money? TQ.

     
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  4. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Vittinghus just woke up. Go read his IG. ;)
     
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  5. Anks

    Anks Regular Member

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    I believe Prize Money isn't offered in WC because its way too Prestegious and grand to be weighed with money pretty much the same reason why No Prize money is offered at the Olympics too.

    Given these two tournaments are the only BIGGEST EVENTS of the Badminton year,it is most likely players play and fight for the Immortal glory to their name than a few thousand bucks to their account and that is truly why I personally love following WC and OLY !
     
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  6. terrynguyen121988

    terrynguyen121988 Regular Member

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    I think that because it's national. There is flag ceremony like Sudirman/Thomas/Uber Cup.

    Tai Tzu Ying wore Yonex T shirt and Viktor has Denmark coach in this tournament because it's national.
     
  7. terrynguyen121988

    terrynguyen121988 Regular Member

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    You said that you just watch players playing WC and Olympic, right ?
     
  8. justiceforlcy

    justiceforlcy Regular Member

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    Around 42:15, AA talks about LKY
     
  9. GoodmintonLover

    GoodmintonLover Regular Member

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    Vittinghus' Christmas Wish List
    [​IMG]
    Copied from Vittinghus' FB post, since I think some of the points he raised worth discussion as fans

    ************************************************************************************

    My 2021 Badminton Christmas Wish List
    Att.: BWF

    Dear reader,

    What you are about to read is going to be rather long, hopefully also interesting, but for sure long. Very long.

    From what you are about to read (and perhaps some of my previous posts) it might seem like I’m very unhappy about how badminton is being run, but that’s not true. There are many things that deserve praise too, but I’m really interested in making our sport even better for me, for you and for future generations, so I always look at the things we could improve on.
    That’s how I think in most aspects of life – I try to make things more efficient, fairer or in broad terms, simply just better.

    So, it’s my hope that this wish list of mine will be received in the way it’s meant to, not as a negative bashing of things as they are, but as constructive criticism as to how we can improve the sport we all love. And trust me, if you get to the end of this post, you do truly love and care about this sport!

    A few opening comments to clarify a few things before you read the full list:

    1. This is not a complete list of my wishes; I’ve chosen to go with the ones I think are rather easy and in most cases expense-free to change

    2. It is not written in any specific prioritized order

    3. I do not have all the answers as to how to implement all my wishes

    4. I know it’s often a long process to change rules and regulations with how BWF is structured, so I don’t expect change to happen over night

    5. My wishes might not be perfect and I’m very willing to hear your feedback, I welcome discussion, that’s how we make things better

    6. Some of my wishes are influenced by ideas I’ve heard from others

    7. Not a single wish of mine has got anything to do with what would be beneficial for my own personal career. My career will be over soon enough anyway, and I actually think some of my suggestions would be a disadvantage for me personally
    Now, let’s get on with it:

    The Things That Are Free to Change:

    - Re-open the World Ranking ASAP

    Why: Because it makes no sense, we still have results from March 2019 that count towards our current ranking! These results are soon to be 3 years old – how does that in any way reflect our current level?
    It is extremely unfair for the young generation of players as many older players currently hold a tremendous number of points, some of them without having performed for a long time and this gap of points is unbelievably hard to close with the current structure as there is no qualifying events for 750+ events. The players that are “in” in terms of the big events get all the chances for the big points and are currently not losing any of them, even if they haven’t performed for 3 years…
    All countries except China are competing worldwide at most events again and I really don’t think it’s fair, we keep the rankings frozen, just to keep them ranked high enough. I know China’s interest is financially critical, but the current ranking freeze is simply just really unfair and not necessary anymore as the tournament calendar gives plenty of options for tournament participation.

    - Stop giving us slow shuttles for almost all events, especially at big “slow” arenas

    Why: Because it encourages a slow, overly patient game and makes badminton more of a physical battle than a technical/tactical one. Listen, I personally love slow shuttles and slow conditions, it’s great for me, just look at what conditions I’ve produced my best badminton in… But we are at a point now where we are playing in very slow conditions almost all the time. It’s not speeding up the game, on the contrary it gives longer rallies, longer breaks and a less interesting game.

    - Do all draws 1-2 days before events start

    Why: Because our current system with draws made weeks prior to events leaves us with lots of draws that are unfair in terms of strength as seeded players pulling out after the draws has been made, gives some players a huge advantage which is purely down to luck. It is so easy to fix this, and I honestly see ZERO downside to such a rule change. It’s a win for everyone, from players to fans to journalists who can then actually do previews that makes sense as they know the players are in fact showing up for their matches. They have already done it this way in table tennis for years. It works!

    - Change the qualifying rules for World Tour Finals to World Rank Top 8 at end of November

    Why: Because a season finale is supposed to be for the best players of the year, not some odd mix of some of the best and some of the most active players. It makes no sense the points you earn at World Champs/Olympics does not count, but it does give you access to WTF is you win those events… WTF is supposed to be the pinnacle of events on the world tour, but honestly and as respectfully as possible, the list of participants the last few times doesn’t do the event any justice. We NEED the best players there to make the season ending finale have the glory it deserves.

    If this is not an option, please consider setting a cap of how many World Tour events count, so it’s only the 10-12 best World Tour results that counts towards qualifying. So that we don’t get anyone qualifying simply because they’re playing a lot more than everyone else, without any real success to show for it.

    - Change the prize money structure at World Tour Finals

    Why: Because the current structure pays so well even if you lose everything, that it discourages players to pull out beforehand, even if they are injured. They’re better off playing a few points in one match and then pull out, to secure their money.

    My suggestion would be something in the lines of:

    Fixed amount for qualifying, based on which position you qualify in (i.e., WR1, WR2, WR3 etc. up until WR9). This is paid out regardless of your participation in WTF or not.
    Bonus per group stage win in straight games.
    Smaller bonus for group stage win in three games.
    Even smaller bonus for group stage loss in three games.
    Very small bonus for group stage loss in straight games (given you complete the full match)
    Bonus for qualifying for semi-final.
    Bonus for qualifying for final.
    Bonus for winning the final.

    This will make sure that everyone always has something to play for regardless of their chances of qualifying for the knockout stage and regardless of their chances of finishing 3rd or 4th in the group. There is always money at stake, in every single game.
     
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  10. GoodmintonLover

    GoodmintonLover Regular Member

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    Continued...

    - Remove the rule of maximum two players per country at World Tour Finals

    Why: Once again because World Tour Finals should be for the 8 best players in the world. Regardless of nationality. Players earn their right to take part in WTF and we are talking a considerable amount of both money and ranking points at stake. This is not a World Championships or Olympics where we obviously need representation from the entire world, this is an event that should be based solely on merit, nothing else. This is one of the most unfair rules in my eyes and I feel bad every time a player gets “cheated” for both money and the chance to earn points that they deserve.

    At the very least, if the rule is not removed, let the player get the prize money they’ve earned in regard to their end of November WR (given the prize money structure is changed into as suggested above). The player who then gets in the WTF without actually having qualified, still has all the other bonuses and ranking points to play for.

    - Remove (or rework) the rule about removal of ranking points if withdrawing against compatriot

    Why: Because it crazy unfair and as I suspected back in 2014 (when we were asked to give out opinion of the rule proposal in the Athletes Commission) it punishes the wrong players: The players who do not withdraw against compatriots with any bad intentions behind it, but simply just because they’re too injured to carry on.
    In my eyes this rule is a real bad look for our sport and it is pure luck we haven’t seen a match at the highest stage, where a visibly injured player is “forced” to carry on playing injured, as the ranking points can be vital in terms of both qualifying for important events and in terms of sponsorship deals.

    - Find a solution to players walking on court to play a few points before withdrawing

    Why: Because this is happening way too often with the current set of rules. It’s terrible to see and it’s unfair to the players on the reserves list who are fit to play.

    In most cases players do this for one of the following reasons:

    To avoid a fine for pulling out after the draw has been conducted.
    To get the first-round prize money.
    To get the ranking points – especially if you’re in contention for World Tour Finals.

    The ranking points issue is not there, if the WTF qualifying rules are changed as suggested previously.
    The issue of getting a fine for pulling out after the draw has been conducted, will also be significantly reduced if draw date is moved closer to tournament start as previously suggested.
    The first-round prize money issue is the only one remaining and I’m considering if it could perhaps be solved in one of the following two ways:

    1. If you’re in the draw and present at the event, you get your first-round prize money regardless of whether you play or not. If you then pull out before the start of the event, the reserve who replaces you, will get the prize money respective of how far they go, minus the first-round amount. This way tournament organizers won’t have to come up with more money, but a reserve player will get a chance to go on court and earn both money and points.

    2. Fine players who pull out of first round matches an amount that’s equal to the first-round prize money plus the normal withdrawal fee penalty. Obviously, there must be an option for no penalty for suddenly occurred on court injuries, which should be confirmed by the tournament doctor, not a team doctor. This still open up for dishonest players, but also makes it a bigger hassle for them to go through – and again, many cases are already removed by changing the rules as suggested above.
    The Things That Cost Money to Change:

    - Make the testing of shuttle speed more even

    Why: Because at the moment it’s a random player/person testing the speed every morning before the start of play. But since different players prefer different speeds, it’s extremely random if the player on the day will go for the slow, the very slow of the extremely slow shuttle (see what I did there?). Trust me, players test the shuttles in a way where they end up with the one, they personally prefer.
    A part of the solution could be to develop a simple machine that can test the speed by hitting the shuttle with the exact same power every time, so it’s not some random player who “tries” to hit all the different speeds of shuttles with the same power.

    - Have one or two reserves (WR9/WR10) on-site for the World Tour Finals

    Why: Because this year perfectly illustrated how detrimental it is to WTF when players withdraw and there is no one to replace them.
    If the prize money structure is changed into something similar to what I suggested above, then there is little to no reason for an injured player to play and pull out – and even if they play and pull out in any of their first two matches, there is a reserve ready to step in to have a shot at success, even if they take over the injured players first result. This way we will once again achieve a fairer competition, a better show for the fans and a better product for the stakeholders/sponsors.
    They have a similar sort of system in tennis, so should be pretty straightforward to look at how it’s done there.

    - Hawkeye on all courts at Super 1000 events + World Championships

    Why: Because although I did previously point out it’s hard to trust the system 100%, it still makes a fairer competition and at these few marquee events, all matches can be career defining moments and have huge financial impact too, so we should strive for as fair a competition as possible.

    - Develop an instant review system for faults called at the net and the serve/return

    Why: Because these calls also can be huge, just like a line call and I don’t really see how it should not be possible, if the money is there of course. So for a start perhaps just for events of level 750+.

    As mentioned in the start of my post, this is not a complete list. There are definitely more we could, and perhaps should, change, like more rest days at big events as a good example. But most of what’s written above is rather easy to fix and change. It doesn’t demand fundamental changes to the way the sport is governed, so here and now, I think the above changes would be rather realistic to implement looking at the short term.

    My wishes for long term changes, well that’s for a separate post. Perhaps I can share that one next year…

    Thanks for reading everyone – please let me know what you guys think about it?

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

    HK
     
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  11. GoodmintonLover

    GoodmintonLover Regular Member

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    Here is what I would add:-
    Give streaming of all courts for all rounds for Super 300 events and above through a static camera without any production or commentary, possibly on the BWF website. Exclude those matches that will be telecasted on TV.

    I'll write the full reasons in the next comment.
     
  12. GoodmintonLover

    GoodmintonLover Regular Member

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    The problems (and possible solutions) of BWF not telecasting/streaming all matches of World Tour tournaments!

    So, the Denmark Open was held and many of us were not able to watch matches that we wanted to. Only around 30% of the total number of matches were streamed. Here are some of the problems that I think arise because of BWF not telecasting all matches:-

    • Many people generally like to see those matches in which players they know of are playing, especially in earlier rounds. And so, many times, fans from a particular country want to see those matches in which players from their country are playing. But due to only 10 matches from court 1 being live-streamed/telecasted on tv, people would have to see matches they are not interested in or they would just not watch it.

    • Only 4 people/pairs are there in semis. The rest of the players get eliminated before that. But how many players/pairs from each country make it to the semis? The number might be a bit high for the top 5 badminton countries but for others, it is just 1-2 and for many, it is also 0. Only these players get proper full attention.

    • People won't be able to enjoy badminton properly year-round and will be able to see matches that they want only during World Championships, Olympics or Asian games or some event like that. Many will only care for badminton during the Olympics (which comes once in 4 years) and not other times just because watching badminton is not accessible.

    • Even every match of the quarterfinals is not telecasted.

    • I feel like it won't help in increasing badminton's popularity or sustaining it among the not-so-hardcore fans/casual badminton fans.
    Don't you find it ridiculous you can watch all the matches for small tournaments like Dutch Open, Scottish Open on the Badminton Europe website but not for big Super 1000 events? We are able to watch even qualification rounds for International Series but not even all quarterfinal matches of the Super 1000 event (Denmark Open). And earlier rounds are not at all streamed/telecasted for other World Tour tournaments.

    Possible Solutions:-

    • They can stream the other two courts or at least court 2 on their website (or perhaps on their youtube channel as a continuous stream instead of streaming each match individually) through a static camera without any production or commentary. (like Badminton Europe website)

    • They can give tv channels and OTT platforms access to the other courts so that people can at least pay and watch.
    There is demand. I have seen unofficial streams, where more than 20,000 people were live watching. I doubt that any people watch the qualification rounds of International Series events but still, Badminton Europe streams it with a good static camera. Then why can't the same be done for BWF World Tour events?

    There has to be some solution. They can't just prevent us from accessing the matches.
     
  13. hyun007

    hyun007 Regular Member

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    Actually around 38mins when they started talking about LKY.

    Thanks for sharing. It is actually quite interesting and I enjoy the podcast.
     
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  14. vozer here

    vozer here Regular Member

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    The reason is obviosly, even non badminton fan can see it: badminton fan want to see more, all options, all courts to chose

    I'm curious more about why they only have 2 courts live streaming
     
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  15. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    @AYearOnTour

    none of this will ever happen because:

    1) bwf has failed to grow and monetize the sport over the past 50 years while many other professional sports became multi billion dollar industries. why?
    2) because bwf personnel has always been ignorant and incompetent. they do not care about anything meaningful to improve the sport. it is obvious they only care about having a job. bwf has been, and continues to be, a revolving door of clueless & spineless executives who have displayed zero capabilities of learning. a bunch of interns can do a better job.
     
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  16. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Maybe the rankings shouldnt include ALL 2019-2020s. Like tennis, i think they still take the best half or 5 tournaments for 2021 so i think they can use it for end 2022 rankings instead of wiping all 19-21 results by end2022. I remembered they were complaining about Federer rankings despite not playing at all.
     
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  17. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Should open a thread on the issues with BWF credibility. Make them famous. lol
     
  18. vixter

    vixter Regular Member

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    What a load of bullshit. BWF is doing a great job. Badminton is simply not a sport that attracts the masses = can never be a multi billion dollar industry.
     
  19. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    start teaching yourself the history of sports. pick any one of the biggest sports today, go back 50 years, then tell us how they got here from 1970. you will see all of the things ibf and bwf didn't do, would not do, refused to do and did not learn to do.

    let us know what you think happened, or didn't happen to badminton.

    as far as attracting the masses how many sports have greater world wide participation than badminton?

    i can't wait to hear your answer...
     
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  20. justiceforlcy

    justiceforlcy Regular Member

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    If "the masses" = Americans to you then sure. Except I think the world might be a little bigger than just America, just maybe.
     

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