Victor VE-50

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by AdamMorin, Dec 11, 2022.

  1. AdamMorin

    AdamMorin Regular Member

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    I figured I would start my own thread to bump. I've been intrigued by stringing for 15 years. It has just never made sense of feasible for me to get a machine and do it myself.

    Now that I am in a small community with a developing club I have recently purchased a VE-50. It looks like it will be around 2-3 months before I receive it, plus set up time and whatever else to get ready.

    I've been searching through this forum and will continue to so I don't ask too many repetitive questions. I did have a few to start though.

    1. Will I still need a fly clamp or two when the machine has fixed clamps?

    2. Are grommets brand specific? Where would be a wise place to look for grommet packs? Is there anything I need to know about them specifically?

    3. How many more rackets can I string on a reel compared to buying the packs? Also, I've been looking around and haven't found an answer. If you have a reel, how do you know the lengths you need to cut?

    4. When it comes to patterns, does every line(ie: voltric, Astrox, nanoray, thruster) have their own patterns or it is racket specific and not the line?

    My biggest concern is starting my first racket and not having what I need. I'll keep reading the forum, but any insight or links to things I have missed would be greatly appreciated.

    I will definitely be posting photo updates and after I do a dozen or so, I will video myself for criticism.
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Awesome! And those are great questions. Let me try to answer some and others might chime in.

    1. Strictly speaking, you don't need flying clamps. You can finish a whole racket without one. However, there are times when it can come in handy. Starting mains strings, or in rare occasions when you try to play around with different fancy patterns, you might find that flying clamps can be useful.

    2. There are some rackets with strip grommets, or U-grommets, those might be brand specific. Otherwise, no. You can of course go buy Yonex grommets but they are expensive. I have managed decade+ of stringing with grommets from mybadmintonstore.com. Another suggestion is, whenever you see someone break a racket that will end up in the trash, harvest the u-grommet and if strip grommets.

    3. 1 more. maybe, maybe 2. You can be very frugal and measure exactly the least amount of slack, but that will make the stringing process slower. Honestly, my time is precious and the $5 saved over isn't worth the time I have to spend. As for how much to cut, mine standard is 3 arm span + 20cm for mains, and 3 arms spans - 20cm for cross.

    4. For pattern, 99% of the racket falls into 3 patterns. Check out the stringing pattern thread.

    Stringing is not rocket science, but yes it does take some time to learn. Before your machine arrives, best is to watch some good stringing videos on youtube to get an idea and the feel of the flow.
     
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  3. AdamMorin

    AdamMorin Regular Member

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    This actually surprises me. Makes me wonder why so many people deal in reels then. Are the prepackaged ones cut exact and makes them harder to deal with? Seems like you have better color selection and convenience going that route.

    So is the benefit to a reel simply to save 1 $35 string job hoping it adds to extra profit in the long term?
     
  4. akatsuki2104

    akatsuki2104 Regular Member

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    Price of a reels (200m) are less expensive than a pack (10m).
    For example in my area, a reel of BG80 is priced around 105€ and a pack is 9€. So almost half the price
     
  5. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    What @akatsuki2104 said. And also a bit more environmental friendly with less wasted plastic packaging.
     
  6. xZhongCheng

    xZhongCheng Regular Member

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    Congrats!

    I used a Victor VM2000S with a Wise head before I bought the VE-50. The VE-50 is way more satisfying to use. The Yonex Precision 5 I believe comes from the same factory, but I feel the Victor Machine's Build quality is slightly better. I did get a chance to try a VE-80 when I was visiting Asia a few years back. For the price point, the VE-50 is definitely the better buy.

    Heres my experience to your questions with the VE-50:

    1. I would advise getting a flying clamp for incase situations. The VE-50 clamps are top notch, they don't losen up as you string the racket because the dial is held in place by a button. I find when stringing some of the newer Yonex rackets like 88S Pro and 99 Pro, the 5 tooth clamp is really tough to get onto the strings, especially near the top. Also if you have rackets that have a smaller top gap like the Yonex NR Z Speed, a 4 tooth clamp will make it easier for you to clamp the last cross for tying off. Some people will loop to the last cross and come back to the 2nd last cross then tie off because its easier. I personally don't do that if I can avoid it. If you can find a 4 tooth flying clamp to use for finishing then its ideal. I was debating whether or not to order a set of 4 tooth fixed clamps, but I held off for now.

    2. Grommets come in 2 sizes mainly, single pass (2.1mm x length) and double pass (2.6 or 2.7mm x length). The best grommets I find are the ones you can order directly from Li Ning. You get a box with a mix of both types. There are other places online too where you can buy the U shaped ones, mainly found on Yonex and Victor rackets. Li Ning generally doesnt use these ones. There are 2 different kinds of U shaped ones as well, one for the 2 holes near the T joint (mains 1 and 2) and ones for the 2 holes coming after (mains 3 and 4). Also there are grommet packs you can buy off Aliexpress, mainly the Power TI ones. I personally don't like these ones as they break quite easily for me.

    3. I recommend 100% to get reels. If you strung with packs before you will notice there is alot left over. If you do one piece stringing, you can probably get away with 23 rackets. I tallied a Reel of BG80 Power the last month and I found I can do 24.5 rackets (This is with 2 piece stringing, so 1 piece I can probably get away with almost 25). I got my measuring down to near perfect but I sometimes forget the cheaper lower end rackets have bigger heads and I cut a segment that's not long enough.

    4. There are a ton of patterns out there. There's a thread on the forum with tons of them.. I personally follow the 2 piece Yonex Method but Tie off My Mains at B9 and My cross Knot is on B8. Yonex's Official knot location is B8 Main and B6 Cross

    Last thing I should mention is check the arms and make sure the side supports touch the racket head when you mount it. I'm not sure what happened to my VE-50, but using the badminton C adapters on all 4 side supports, the Top left one doesnt touch the racket. I have to use the wider adapter to have all 4 of the support arms touch the racket. I have strung at least 300 rackets on this machine since I got it a few months back and its been working perfectly even with the one odd adapter on the support arm. If you have any questions about the machine feel free to PM me.
     
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  7. kakinami

    kakinami Regular Member

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    Wow! Your stringing pattern sounds familiar...

    Don't know if you want to go crazy but a starting clamp and maybe a cheap set of tennis polyester might be good to have. You can go cheap with a starting clamp, but just to let you know, you get what you pay for. A 30usd clamp might slip but a 200+usd Yonex starting clamp will amaze you and so far for me has lasted a long time 13 years so far. I use it as an extender when I cut short from a reel which is all the time, because my tension head is a little more further away then normal machines. When I measure now for my mains I am using 7 racket lengths for my mains and 6 minus about half the grip for my crosses, maybe gives me about 3.5 inches to tie my knots. I usually get about 23.5 rackets from a reel. BG 66 Ultimax in Japan now on Mercari Japan runs about ¥900 a set and a reel 200m is about ¥13500, that comes out to less than ¥600 a set you do the math.

    As I live in Japan now I have learned to become a frugal stringer looking for cheaper tools. From Aliexpress I have found a few useful tools a grommet grinder and a grommet remover tool. The grinder can help you turn grommets or push them out. I usually try to push them out when I inspect the racket, but sometimes I might miss a grommet that I thought might be ok but when I put the string in looks bad, so the grommet remover tool which looks like a screw on the end is helpful to me to pull it out instead of push where the grommet grinder has trouble pushing while I have mains installed.

    My last goto tool is like a 30° short bent nose plier. I found at my local hardeware store for less than ¥400 which I use at home, but you can be a dumb ass like me and spend ¥1800 for a Japanese Fujiya brand bent nose plier MP9AT-110, a 3 Peaks cutter CN-130 ¥4700 which can cut piano wire, ¥6500 for tools at your hardware shop can probably find for less than ¥1000 and do the same thing, overkill but hey, puts a smile on my face =)

    I personally use a floating clamp on my crosses, I use it to do finishing knots on my crosses instead of a starting knot and a finishing knot, most people will anchor their cross, a flying clamp helps me tension strings without anchoring the cross, then after a few crosses tensioned I can go back and tension my first cross and then tie off, this puts less tension on my knot if I were to anchor and then pull.

    Grommets, yea my goto are 2.1 and 2.7, I usually shove the 2.7 in but sometimes I bend them and need to use a 2.6, but if you can shove a 2.7 in you don't have to worry about it slipping out. The U shaped grommets at 1-2 and 3-4 I usually have and a L shaped 2.6 in case the frame shows some wear from stringing I would use those. I store in a small fishing tackle box.

    Alcohol, q-tips, a wire brush might come in handy for your clamps. A good movie too while you clean them.


    Sent from my SC-01L using Tapatalk
     
  8. kakinami

    kakinami Regular Member

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    2-3 months! You are lucky! I ordered a machine in September 2022 and was told I might be able to get it in November. November of 2023! Today I was offered another machine from the same company a newer version with less bells and whistles that can arrive maybe in April of 2023 so I asked to change to that Precise model =)

    Sent from my SC-01L using Tapatalk
     
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  9. xZhongCheng

    xZhongCheng Regular Member

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    Usually my tails on my knots are around 1-2 inches. When it gets too short I resort to a double half hitch haha.

    When I got my VE-50 it came with basically all the tools you require. ie Pliers, Grommet remover, starting clamp.

    The cheap grommet grinder and remover tool on aliexpress are pretty good. I just grabbed one recently.
     
  10. AdamMorin

    AdamMorin Regular Member

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    Yeah I got lucky. It's the only machine in Canada from Victor actually. Just a fluke. Otherwise it's 2-3 months to manufacture on order and 8-9 months for shipping. He said if I wanted a different machine it would be about 12-15 month wait.
     
  11. AdamMorin

    AdamMorin Regular Member

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    So for whatever reason there was mass confusion. But this machine ended up on my doorstep on Dec 20th. Finally got around to building it and using the calibration tool to test the tension head.

    Probably won't get around to putting my first racket on it until February. I wasn't expecting it this soon and don't have the time.

    I tried to upload a picture but every one I try it says it's too big
     
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  12. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    Congrats. Christmas came early!
     
  13. slim416

    slim416 Regular Member

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    Congrats on the new machine! Victor makes some of the best badminton stringing machines - my C-7027 (coupled with my WISE tension head) has been one of my best badminton-related purchases.

    As for your questions:

    1. Will I still need a fly clamp or two when the machine has fixed clamps?
    You don't need any flying clamps to string a racket but they do have in handy - i use fixed clamps for my mains and to start and end my crosses and floating clamps (in pairs) for the rest of the crosses. I like them as they are quicker to use and hold the strings very well when used in pairs (on the crosses). Depending on your technique you might need to get a starting clamp though if your machine does not come with one.

    2. Are grommets brand specific? Where would be a wise place to look for grommet packs? Is there anything I need to know about them specifically?
    Yonex rackets tend to use different types of grommets for each of their rackets but they do make grommet sets that you can get from them. Victor tends to use more generic ones so i would look into at least getting a set of generic grommets and if you have a main racket from Yonex specific grommet sets for those ones as well

    3. How many more rackets can I string on a reel compared to buying the packs? Also, I've been looking around and haven't found an answer. If you have a reel, how do you know the lengths you need to cut?
    For two-piece string job you can usually get around 22 rackets from a 200m spool - for my set up it is 16.5 ft for the mains and 13.5 ft for the crosses
    For one-piece string job, you can get around 23-24 rackets per spool, based on 27.5 - 28ft per racket

    The above figured will vary based on a number of factors, which racket, the distance from the racket to the gripper and what technique you use (anchor knot vs starting clamp), etc;


    4. When it comes to patterns, does every line(ie: voltric, Astrox, nanoray, thruster) have their own patterns or it is racket specific and not the line?

    There are specific patterns for each racket but for the most part they all follow the same approach - once you learn the standard 2-piece pattern you can apply that to pretty much all rackets. There will be a slight variation on things like where the last row ends, and where you tie off, and for rackets with non-shared holes, which hole the cross or main goes in but in most cases, if you use common sense you should be fine. 1-piece, 2-knot patterns are more advanced and require more planning like how much string to allocate for the short end, where to cross over to the crosses, and where to skip a row, etc; but you should be fine using the normal two piece method until you are more experienced

    Enjoy your new machine!
     
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  14. AdamMorin

    AdamMorin Regular Member

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    So I just spent 3 days in a city near me at the largest club with the best reputation. They have 3 stringers, they have their day staff do all the pre-weaving in and out of their busy day. They choose it because when they are busy, they can just put it down and the next one can pick it up and it doesn't sit on the machine all day.

    I have heard many times that 2 piece jobs are superior in every way. I understand from a friction standpoint, being able to weave and pull the cross tight while on the machine. But other than the friction standpoint, why is 1 piece, pre-weave so hated among stringers?

    I spent 3 days doing it and I enjoyed learning. Although I am open minded and just wanting to do a good quality job with convenience in mind.
     
  15. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    They are not. There's not a single fact or scientific reason for claiming that, except "trust me bro". As @slim416 wrote, a 2-piece job works on each an every racket with only minor tweaks, so you don't have to spend a lot of thinking. And for most stringers, a 2-piece job is faster to do.

    Regarding pre-weave:
    https://www.badmintoncentral.com/fo...-still-ok-nowadays.186473/page-2#post-2785412

    Like in your example, if a shop wants to reduce the time a racket spends on the machine or has just a limited number of stringers, then pre-weaving can help with that (saves maybe 2 minutes per racket?). It also eliminates issues with blocked or shared grommets. It's less bad than going for the really nasty shortcuts like doing double pulls and/or doing the mains side-to-side.
     
  16. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    If your two-piece jobs are looser than your one-piecers, your knots are absolute shite.

    My tuppence, anyway.
     
  17. slim416

    slim416 Regular Member

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    With good skills / technique, and a good constant pull machine, both methods are fine in my books

    Two-piece jobs are more universal and easier / faster for most ppl. One piece job takes more planning or just more experience (i.e. trial and error) as in some cases you will end up a bit short on the short end when pulling. For a shop doing high volume and having multiple employees, the option to pre-weave is definitely an advantage but for home stringers where you are the only person stringing it is not that big of a factor. For myself, I hate weaving across non-tensioned mains off the machine. 2-piece requires either a starting knot or extra strings if you use a starting clamp instead - with thinner and thinner strings starting knots are harder to do on badminton rackets (at least without damaging the mains) so the alternative is to use a starting clamp to start the first pull then come back later and reclamp and repull and then tie off like a standard knot.

    I think most ppl don't like 1-piece because it is just more work but once you get the hang of it is it not that bad. Regardless you want to learn both methods because you will need 2-piece stringing for any hybrid strings. Learn both and see what you prefer
     
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  18. AdamMorin

    AdamMorin Regular Member

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    Appreciate the link. So what I am gathering is that 1 piece isn't the issue, it's how far you pre-weave.

    Doing a 1 piece job, pre-weaving the mains and the first 2 crosses would be a decent practice than. And then weave all your other crosses on the machine.

    Take away 2 knots, get your 1 piece, get some pre-weaving done by someone who isn't on the machine, and finish the crosses so you don't get the friction of pulling straight across.

    Do I understand that half decent?

    Also, I've noticed a few videos where people are doing there crosses from the middle out(I believe it a LN racket with yellow string.) Is that racket specific or a stringer choice?

    Is there any rackets you cannot 1 piece on? Other than running into the aerobite/string specific issue where you can't?

    Also, I never got an answer from the club I was at, does it really "matter" where the 2 knots (1pc job) end up in the sense of location? Like should the be on opposite sides and opposite corners? I can't remember which racket I was doing, possibly the Arc 7 pro where the pre-weave left me with a knot on the same side top and bottom. The guy said "oh, that will be fine. You won't get tension loss". But I'm trying to understand the reasoning.

    I would like to become a stringer that maybe has his own style but there is a reason I do it, not just because "someone told me and trained me this way"
     
  19. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    In general, what you need to do is a bit less overthinking and just start stringing at some point. All these details that your thoughts are revolving around are not that important - at least in the beginning. First of all, your main prioritiy is to get the strings into the frame with a consistent and safe process. And as said repeatedly before, a 2-piece job requires less planning and thinking, I would always suggest to start with that and build up some routine before trying some more "exciting" patterns.

    Rule #1: Though shalt ALWAYS string the mains from the center outwards! Why?


    There are some that make it really difficult, but I can't imagine a racket design that makes it fully impossible to do some kind of 1-piece pattern on it. Let's keep in mind that there are a number of different 1-piece patterns that you can do.

    It doesn't matter. At all. Why would it? Stringing is not some kind of magic, it's pretty basic mechanics. A little bit of gut feeling and logic thinking will get you a long way to determine what actually matters to produce safe and consistent(!) jobs. Don't let anyone make you believe that there's some kind of fairy dust coming from any of those process details.

    Sounds perfectly fine. As said in the beginning, the best way to get there is to start with the basics and get some hands-on experience. And also very important: You need to get to know your machine inside out. What do you have to look for when mounting it? How do you adjust the clamps correctly, do you know the most important settings on your tension motor?
    As with most things in life, the truth is in the basics!
     
  20. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Stringer choice, but it can only be done with a flying clamp/s because one fixed clamp can't reach both sides of the racket.
    Absolutely does not matter, as long as they are tied as close to the last cross as possible.
    (Purely aesthetically, I loathed seeing crosses tied at shared holes, but that's me.)
    The only hard rules are, IMO
    1. Mains from the middle out, and keep the L/R as balanced as possible.
    2. Tie knots as close to their anchor strings as possible.
    3. Crosses bottom up (this is known to be safer).
     

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