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Victory celebration: suggestion

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by jjashik, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. jjashik

    jjashik Regular Member

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    How many times have we seen players getting scolded by umpires because they celebrated their victory and went to greet their coach first, or ran around the stadium (LD), or threw their shirts into the crowd (Antonsen)? What are these players supposed to do at the height of their emotions of victory? Greet opponent(s) then service judge, then umpire, and then celebrate? How does that make any sense?

    My suggestion: why not let the players celebrate by allowing the winners up to 60 seconds to do as they please (coach, fans, whatever) and up to 2 minutes for the tournament final matches. Wouldn't it be a better spectacle for the fans, and greater expression of the thrill for the players this way? And neither 60 seconds during the tournament, nor 2 minutes for the finals will make any negative difference. Instead it will make for a more compelling display of the joy of these athletes who train so hard and make difficult sacrifices to reach such heights. Unlike goal celebrations in soccer, where the match must continue, it's the end of the match after all. Allowing the players to freely celebrate will benefit the sport, especially in places like Indonesia where fans are so enthused and energetic.
     
  2. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Though I am for letting all the players celebrate all they want.

    But I am for doing it after shaking hands with the opponents and officials at least. If possible, they may cry, scream, jump, rip off their shirts or hug the coach whatever on the spot within a minute or so, but at least before running out of the court and doing lap celebration I'd prefer they keep their emotion in tact for a few secs to shake hands with everyone necessary (the umpire/service judge are still on duty until the players shake hands with them) and then take all the time they want to do whatever they want.
     
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  3. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    How's it done in tennis?

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
  4. badmintony

    badmintony Regular Member

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    It's all a matter of the post match behavior still very much a part of the whole idea of true sportsmanship. Though AFAIK there are no written rules about how winners should celebrate their victory, it's a good display of courtesy to all the people directly involved in the conduct of the match (opponents and game officials on court) to acknowledge their efforts that also made the winners accomplishment possible. I also said it before that even the line judges should be acknowledged everytime not only the umpire and service judge. It'll only take a few secs or a minute to do this then the winners have a longer time to dance around naked, lie on the floor, group hug their coaches, fly into the arms of their fans, break their rackets to make the most of their joyful moments on court in victorious celebration

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  5. jjashik

    jjashik Regular Member

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    The courtesy is a matter of rules and expectations. If the allowance is made to celebrate first (while the ump announces the official result, rather than waiting to be thanked) then the courtesy to thank them will take place in due time, a minute or two later. It's rude to make people wait if you are later than agreed. It's not rude if the understanding is that you'll be there in two minutes, and you show up accordingly.
     
  6. badmintony

    badmintony Regular Member

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    Then your idea of those rules and expectations should be reversed. It's a lot more beautiful that way just like in tennis event hough they might have quite a different "culture".

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  7. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Do umpire really scold players for celebration? I've never noticed that. I'm not sure it's a big deal for the players either, they keep doing their celebrations after all. These umpires are really nobodies. If they scolded then just smile and say sorry.
     
  8. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Do we seriously want to limit and set rules for how athletes reaching the top of their emotions? That is so sad and so 2019. :oops:

    @phihag
    Are there any rules in the book concerning the after-match behaviour of players? Cause that would be the base for any umpire scolding or sanctioning players for celebrating overly excessive.
     
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  9. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    I don't think the umpire ever scolded the players for celebrating excessively, they usually just reminded the players for not shaking hands with the opponents, umpire, and service judge before going off court and celebrate.
     
  10. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    There is no specific rule however there are a few things that need to be followed and it results in this.

    Most important - player must thank the opponent and the umpires before leaving the court. Umpire must announce the results of the match right after the match finished however he should wait for the players to shake hands before that. Umpire can get out of the chair only after announcing the match and he have to do it quickly by the rules.

    It is also unsportsmanlike to make the looser wait for the winner to finish celebrating to shake the hands.
     
  11. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Agree with stradrider's points.

    One way to make sure the winner follows the rules is to call a let on the last rally... and replay it...

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  12. jjashik

    jjashik Regular Member

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    I am not sure you understand, at least my initial post. As the rules stand, athletes are supposed to contain their emotions to thank opponent(s) and officials first before celebrations. So what you mean by "so 2019" you'll need to clarify.

    As Yuquall stated, I too haven't ever seen a player get scolded for the celebrations, just simply that they were supposed to thank opponent and officials first. It seems highly robotic and uptight for the umpire not to announce the final results, being forced (by the current rules) to await being thanked. It seems like the the british snobbery (in my opinion) where players have to wear white (Wimbledon?), or the ridiculous rule in golf that women can wear shorts, but not men. Rules generally have a good reason when installed, but those reasons fade (and sometimes die out) over time. My point was: let the winners celebrate!
     
  13. jjashik

    jjashik Regular Member

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    Again, the unsportsmanship is due to the current rules so that the loser comes to the net awaiting the winner. If the rules made allowances, the loser could observe the winner, and go to his bag first to towel down and drink before greeting the winner.

    What I find ridiculous and unsportsmanlike is when a player who just won a rally walks by the shuttle near the net without picking it up, simply because it was the opponent's fault. If BWF was serious about speeding up the game, this is one easy remedy: the winning player shall pick up the shuttle if they are within one step of reach.
     
  14. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    If that was the intention and message of your OP, then no, I didn't get it. At all. I'm mean, they currently can pretty much do whatever they want, right?

    Thanking the opponent and the officials is nothing but showing respect. Nothing robotic about that at all imo.
     
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  15. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    I don't agree it's fine to force the looser to wait while the winner celebrating. In fact I believe it to be extremely humiliating. Loosers also have emotions and often even stronger ones... The last thing he wants to do is follow winner's celebration in order to shake his hand...
    Totally with you there!
     
  16. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    I am not sure even why we are splitting melons here?... Anders, been so happy, probably forgot to shake service judge's hand. Umpire asked him not to forget next time. What's the big deal?
     
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  17. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    Yes, and they are quite unambiguous (emphasis mine):
    The ITTO regulate the enforcement of the Players' Code of Conduct:
    Law §16.6.4 is just A player shall not be guilty of misconduct not otherwise covered by the Laws of Badminton, and is listed in law §16.7.1 as one of the reasons for yellow, red, or black cards.


    As an umpire, this situation requires some sensitivity. On the one hand, we want the winners to be fair, and this includes a handshake with the umpire, service judge, and opponents. On the other hand, it's understandable that a winner may be overcome by emotion, and we don't want a sterile, stilted situation when a player has just won a top tournament.

    So in practice, as long as the player stays on court, the following should be enough:
    • Look at the player, extending your hand for a handshake.
    • Wait with announcing the match win. This is required per ITTO §5.6.5 anyways; after all, the winner of the last rally could still be disqualified (although certainly not for missing handshakes).
    • Call the player's name.
    This is usually enough, especially because the coaches typically notice that the match has not been called yet. Only in extreme cases – for instance the player running into the crowd and staying there for some time – a yellow card should be shown. If the player simply forgets to shake hands with one of the technical officials, I would let it slide; maybe remind them (directly or via a referee) afterwards.

    The situation is different if it's obvious that some slighting is taking place. If the service judge has called a fault and the player shakes the hands of everybody but the service judge, or if the player is clearly showing that they think the opponent is beneath them and refusing a handshake, a yellow card – or, if a yellow card was already shown to the side, a red card – should be shown.

    And no, there are no mandates on the quality of the handshake; just extending your hand and making quick contact is enough.
     
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  18. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Can/should an umpire be able to take away the win though over unsportsmanlike conduct after the match is over? Lets just say for hypothetical sake Antonsen just pee all over the court after his win for...reasons. I personally think that it should be up to BWF to perhaps ban him for life or take away all his winning $ but not the umpire to take away the win because he did play a fair match and won. What happen after the match should no longer be part of the match.
     
  19. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    First of all, an umpire can never disqualify a player. Disqualification can only be decided by the referee.

    This is the current law:

    I'm not sure whether disqualification changes the score of the match; I'd argue it changes the result, with the score being unchanged. So a red card has no effect, but a black card could still disqualify the player.

    In any case, BWF (or the IOC) would certainly hold a hearing to decide the precise fate of the player. This can result in the win being denied retroactively, just like when a player is found guilty of doping or match-fixing.
     
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  20. psyclops

    psyclops Regular Member

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    The players are required to behave as per the code of conduct, this much is clearly written, and players know they will get away with just a rebuke (scolding?), so they use this. Umpires are also required to instruct players about their obligation - that they must shake hands prior to celebrating, and administer the misconduct.

    In the past, players have gotten away with smashing their racquet on the court after loosing the final. At least until the law is clearly written about removing shirt, as they have in football (automatic yellow card, and if that was a second yellow, then a red card must be shown), the umpire will not be the bad-guy. And unlike, football, where the referee can easily claim 'did not see' in badminton, it is not that easy to ignore.

    We now see the players toss memorabilia into the stands prior to coin-toss; how did this come about? It usually it is up to the event organisers how they want the final rounds shown.

    In terms of logistics, all the player(s) celebration(s) do(es) is delay the umpire to announce the match result, and consequently delaying their exit from the court, esp the losing team, and the next match.
     

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