[Video] Backhand short serve

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by visor, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^ Probably parallax effect, I don't think I ever serve from chest height... unlike some players like Ahsan. :p

    Next time I do another video I'm gonna have to mark my lowest rib with tape on the shirt. :p
     
  2. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Good idea it would be good to see the tape shirt to compare the effect.

    This is what how I see it, just for reference.
    Blue dot contact point. Top of yellow highlight is lowest rib. Also I see the racket shaft not pointing downwards
    SERVICE.PNG
     
  3. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Although that frame grab you have there is likely 2-3 frames after striking the shuttle, so about 1/10ths of a sec after. If you watch my original speed video without the blue waist marker in post 1, no one would mention about the serve being high or racket not pointing downwards. :p
     
  4. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    I only just came across thread or I would:p
    What stood out in post 1, was it looks like the shuttle is struck at the same height as the raised elbow. When the elbow is lowered that is where the rib should be, as you know.
    It would be interesting to be proofed wrong with your tape though.
     
  5. heeroyuy

    heeroyuy Regular Member

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    Hi Visor,
    You have a good trajectory and consistency with your serve, but you look a bit tense... :D
    One thing I notice is that your serve didn't have a smooth follow-through motion (as if you hold back your racquet right after the impact with the bird).
    You also lift your right toes a bit in some of the serve, probably because you were trying to compensate the flat trajectory with your backhand serve.
    You probably can compensate it with your thumb and wrist and make a small flick initially, like in this Lin Dan's video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajuM2s0vIbg

    I saw another video, but this one seems harder to get the trajectory since it uses more wrist rotation:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idXN3aMZj5s
     
  6. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Tks heeroyuy... :)

    You would be tense too after 200 serves in a row, and your goal is to get 6 in a row of perfect serves that just skim the net and land on the service line. ;) :p I think in light of that I did just fine... :D

    Yes, I've seen those video's of LD and Xiao Jie.

    For LD, he's serving from midcourt in singles, so he needs more forearm action. And singles serves don't have to be so tight as to skim the net and land on the service line. Whereas doubles you need to be perfect, because the receiver is toeing the service line ready to pounce on any imperfect serves.

    Xiao Jie's serves are unusual... it includes a slicing action which is difficult to control and maintain accuracy and consistency. I've never seen any current top 20 player singles or doubles serve like that.

    My service action has a little stop or jab action with a tad of supination at the end as I find that it helps to turn the shuttle in a more controlled manner while at the same time keeping the trajectory low. This action is also what I observe in watching slow mo serves of LYD, CY, and Setiawan, the few players who I think have the best serves. In any case, as long as it's consistent and accurate, there's really no need to follow thru unnecessarily after striking the shuttle.
     
    #46 visor, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  7. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    i don't get why you guys are debating about the height of serve!?
    it's not even suspicious! as his coach, i would even recommend him to go a bit higher. that serve is NEVER gonna be called for its height. (as i said, maybe for the racket being quite parallel and not pointing downward. but that's really hard to judge from the perspective. just saying it MIGHT be an issue. the height is certainly no issue!!)
     
  8. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Well this is interesting. I am debating it because honestly, I would like to serve from up there too but I don't because it says in the rules that you need to make contact below bottom rib and that serve is not. (not even close from the angle we are watching). Most people especially pro's have your mindset, that can go even further up than visor here, but it is incorrect factually, so I want to understand this alternate ideology so I can start serving from the sternum:D. (I am 6foot so it would mean i could just bout drive it downwards from serve;))
     
  9. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    just serve maybe 5cm above the bellybutton, that's alright.

    i haven't measured his body, but i have a pretty good feeling for what is allowed and what's not. i've seen a million elite players (on national and international level) that serve def higher on a regular basis and have not been called by an umpire. i def serve higher and have never in my life been called by an umpire or opponent.

    edit: by the way, even if you literally follow the rules, his serve is correct! in your screenshot you maybe 2 or 3 frames too late. his contact point is far below his lowest rib...
     
    #49 |_Footwork_|, Nov 14, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  10. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    What can I say, I disagree with everything you said. My bellybutton is level with my lowest rib. 2 or 3 frames too late or not I still see visor serving from raised elbow height. No way below rib(unless camera trick) but I will concede one thing, it probably would be accepted and your right I have seen many pro's serving higher. This rule still eludes me, but hey, I think I am just going to shut up and start serving from higher:D
     
  11. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    @craigandy

    What can I say, my lowest rib is 2 inches above my belly button... as Footwork says.
    Perhaps you can get a little surgery to remove one or two of those unnecessary floating ribs that seem to be impeding your serves?
    :p :p :p :D :D :D
     
  12. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    i think @craigandy has a wrong perception where the lowest rib is. i found an anatomy-pic where you can see the bellybutton and the lowest rib. i would say that's approx 5cm!?

    http://www.webop.de/files/illustrat...Netz_Ana_Bauchschichten_normal.jpg?1297373770

    so you can def serve from somewhere above your bellybutton. therefore, visor's height of serve is well within the rules!
     
  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    This depends on the BWF definition of lowest rib. Do they regard it as the lowest rib (which is the twelfth rib ) or the lowest part of the costal margin or even the rib fixed to the sternum?
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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  15. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    Whether you want to go for the 10th or 12th rib, the line is drawn somewhere between 7 and 8 :D. It is completely on the high side but as mentioned probably would hardly get called ...
     
  16. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    Too focussed on the blue line to see you actual serve was quite a bit below it ;). Still acceptable to me and veru unlikely to get called [​IMG]

    Untitled-1.jpg Untitled-2.jpg
     
    #56 demolidor, Nov 15, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
  17. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    I thought common accepted for umpires was when you put your elbow by your side, it is this point on your body where your elbow ends that they "log". By most folks perception though apparently it is the sternum one.:D

    The anatomy pic shows the (slightly raised) elbow just about level with bellybutton.
     
  18. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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  19. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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  20. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    ok, i now see the problem. sorry for that. you're counting the floating ribs. you should't...
     

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