[Video] Backhand short serve

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by visor, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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  2. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    The reason for this is I have heard on umpiring courses they teach as the point level with elbow at side which corresponds to floating rib, but I still think Visor is just about above the 10th rib anyways, he certainly can't go higher. How did you come to your conclusion about what rib? thanks
     
  3. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    elbow at side is def way below the 10th rib (or even the floating rib...).
    in the vid i see him serve about the height of the bellybutton, maybe a tiny bit above.

    as said, this is def ok.
     
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    The fact that there is discussion on the lowest rib is proof enough of the ambiguity.

    I wouldn't trust a .gif as being a true anatomical representation. LOL. Otherwise, medical students would all be learning anatomy on the computer rather than looking at skeletons, doing dissection or looking at prosections.


    BTW, the 11th and 12th rib definately originate lower than the tenth rib. There is a reason why they are numbered ssequentially. LOL
     
    #64 Cheung, Nov 15, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
  5. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    you guys are trolling me, aren't you?

    or does anybody really think this serve is too high? that's just ridiculous!
     
  6. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    right this is a pic of before service look at where he is holding the shuttle and he raises the shuttle even more just before contact.
    service123.PNG
    "in the vid i see him serve about the height of the bellybutton, maybe a tiny bit above." you say.

    ok forget about wiki images, just on your own body put your elbow by your side. (about level with belly button right?) his elbows are raised and he is contacting level with his raised elbow height, You on your own body raise your elbows like that and get a stick to see where the level is on the body, what do you find with regards to your above statement?


    I can see even more now why this rule just needs to get changed
     
  7. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    I should also point out that if you look carefully my original camera angle was not perfectly level, it was slightly slanted, right side higher than left.

    I don't know about you but when I stand in front of the mirror, my belly button is 2 inches below the elbow tip. Only if I slouch do I get them to be level. So perhaps you're slouching? :)

    To solve this problem, maybe BWF has to force players to wear mid riff T shirts that expose their belly buttons. ;) But there's already a thread on a new upcoming rule where they're thinking of using a fixed height rule for service.
     
  8. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Lol, can you just get and wear this top in order to put this to bed? As a side effect I think you would look pretty cool:D
     
  9. bazzaman

    bazzaman Regular Member

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    Poll on whether Visor should redo the vid in a mankini or not.
     
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Definitely not trolling! BWF needs to come up with definition that is understandable and clear to clarify the ambiguity.
     
  11. uselessmail

    uselessmail Regular Member

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    Yay!! So I am not crazy that I thought his serve was 'dangerously high' after all!! Thank you all ye Badminton Gods... thee hath vindicated me...:D

    On a side note, I actually had seen all those pics and gif posted by [MENTION=26088]Craig[/MENTION] long ago, the first time this issue came up and I actually was quite sure that our dear friend [MENTION=57143]visor[/MENTION] was striking the shuttle above. Strange how two people can look at the same thing and come to two different conclusions. Whats even more confusing is when you look at the gif, its clear that there is no straight line that can be drawn for the rib.

    From the front view of the body, the last rib starts somewhere above the belly button and then angles downwards towards the sides (love handles). So looking from the side view of the body, the last rib is definitely lower than where it 'started' at the sternum.

    I do have another doubt though... what happens when the server bends down and serves? I mean, not at the knees but bends his back down forward and serves. This way, it would be difficult for the service umpire to 'judge' whether the shuttle was hit below the 'imaginary line drawn along the last rib'.
     
  12. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    In my opinion, the serve looks a little high. However, it is not so high as to concern me about the rules and unfair advantages and all that nonsense - i.e. I would not advise lowering it, but would always consider it to be as high as it could possibly be (as opposed to my own serve, as an example, which could potentially be a couple of centimetres higher and still be ok).
     
  13. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Not willing to let this rest yet... :p
    So I took @craigandy 's frame grab and put in some lines to show the slant in the video camera angle.

    The bottom line is the straight level of the mat, and the top line is the line that my serves stay under. This top line is lower than the blue line I marked in the slow mo video, and imho, is lower than my lowest rib margin. :)
     
    #73 visor, Nov 16, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  14. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Pic...............
     
  15. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Pic..........

    Crappppp..,m,, why does the forum downzize my pic@??@!!
     

    Attached Files:

    #75 visor, Nov 16, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  16. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Try posting pic again...

    Not willing to let this rest yet...
    :p
    So I took @craigandy 's frame grab and put in some lines to show the slant in the video camera angle.

    The bottom line is the straight level of the mat, and the top line is the line that my serves stay under. This top line is lower than the blue line I marked in the slow mo video, and imho, is probably the level of my lowest rib margin. :)

    Serve waist.jpg
     
    #76 visor, Nov 16, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  17. captaincook

    captaincook Regular Member

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    I have seen Markis Kido served much much higher.... and won the olympics gold.
     
  18. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    True. But leading up to and since OG 2012, service judges have been much much stricter with service. Especially flick serves.

    Ahsan is also another player who serves or appears to serve from the chest. ;)
     
  19. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Serve waist 2013.jpg

    Here is what I see.

    The Pink line(top of) - is where your lowest rib bit is (I got this point from measuring from where I could still see your arm to elbow, then using that same measurement from that same point straight down, 99% sure that's where your bottom rib is in the photo)

    The red line - this is where I think you make contact(with your little rise just before contact) not adjusted for camera tilt granted but tilt minimal.

    Conclusion imo serve high by a lot.
     
  20. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    [​IMG] yeah it varies. The very first serve is at the original blue line height but the second was quite a bit lower. And indeed the rule is "the top of the shuttle" not the cork/contact point ;). (edit 2) Looking at it yet again, the blue line marked the top of the shuttle indeed.

    I'd have put the pink line even lower by a smidge, that tiny shaded area just half an inch below perhaps. Accounting for tilt now, the very first serve actually drops a bit from original position. Not as bad as appeared at first ... But who is gonna call something that is roughly in the proper area. Usually it is more noticeable if the shuttle get's lifted or tossed up a bit like in the last serve ... (besides: when have you ever had a service judge at your match :D)
    Just to mention: Gade's serve is clearly lower in that instruction vid (for singles serve)
     
    #80 demolidor, Nov 17, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013

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