[VIDEO] Singles Progression

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by DarkHiatus, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Don't despair!

    You will most likely have learned something useful by trying that. For example, it will come in handy when you want to play clip smashes, and when you are under pressure. :)
     
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  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Very nice slow motion example of ZhangNing's high serve.



    @DarkHiatus
    note the transfer of weight forward
    turning of body
    shoulder turning
    position of left arm during turning - on your follow through, the right arm goes above the left arm. Because you don't turn, you feel really cramped and cannot utilise the full power of yuor body.

    All these you can incorporate into you own serve. For the outcome, you must see the shuttle go very, very high so that it descends vertically. We are looking at about 8metres in height.

    Although your high serve might land in the tramlines, it doesn't descend vertically enough. Your opponent can hit the shuttle standing at the rear doubles service line or even closer to the net.
     
    #42 Cheung, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
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  3. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Just a quick
    Sorted out the high serve now, I had the technique before, so just had to bring it back. Definitely not afraid of a smash off these serves now!

    The slow drop is another story...I asked my coach about why I was struggling so much and he's noticed a few things. The first was as mentioned, left foot moving back before lunging, so a bad first step. Second showed when he then tried it again - even with my left foot first step being in the right place, I was still struggling. Turns out I wasn't planting my left foot properly, and being unbalanced by stepping on the ball of my left foot rather than the whole foot. Finally, I was also overlunging, taking the shot on the inside on my right foot, when I had enough time to simply take a shorter lunge and play the shot in front of my foot. Have to get used to keeping a straight back, lunging lower and taking the shot in front of me, which might mean taking the shuttle lower, but allows me more time/shot options.

    The last point was highlighted on some net shot practices, in which I vastly favour playing net shots to the middle/forehand side when I receive a shot on my backhand. He mentioned that by waiting a little longer to play a backhandside net shot, I still don't give anything away to my opponent, because he must wait for me to hit the shuttle before moving anyway. I.e. just because I CAN hit the shuttle earlier, doesn't mean I should.

    He also said not to be afraid of the slow drops - he'd much rather have the slow drop than a smash from an opponent. Even if taken lower, he says I should be able to turn the tables with a decent hairpin net shot, even if my opponent is running to the net.

    Also asked him about the forehand footwork. He clarified to say that the crossover should only be used for a step-out lunge footwork (no time) or if I'm moving back to scissor (loads of time). All other cases a chasse+jump is better. We went through a drill and it seems my forehand rearcourt isn't my worst corner anymore!

    My racquet skills still need plenty of work - it looks like my experience with net shots tends to bring me too close to the net, so I've been learning to play net shots from further away from the net, which should also increase my confidence in taking shuttles lower. On my overhead action, getting a throwing action does feel different and work better, but I'm finding it difficult to do it whilst I'm moving.
     
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  4. Kenjiken

    Kenjiken New Member

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    Maybe long post so sorry about that,I feel that the foremost reason it felt so tough for you was because of balance, which comes from two things mainly i.e.
    1.Good Footwork.(meaning minimal energy expended, max balance and prepared for opponent return and next shot)
    2.Proper usage of your non racquet arm as a 'stabiliser' to your body movement and stroke movement.

    I think that in terms of footwork, your lunges ended with mostly your racquet foot pointing inwards/medially and also not landing on the sole of the foot. When lazing around just experiment lunges with your foot pointed different ways. The knee joint is designed for only forward and backwards movement and has no rotation at all, so the best way to achieve max reach, balance and efficiency is when you lunge with your racquet foot pointing forwards or slightly laterally and land on the soles of your foot.

    just before landing, it looks like this except maybe for his non-racquet/sword arm.

    http://i.imgur.com/33HnVhI.jpg

    Lin Dan in perfect motion.
    http://www.tacticalbadmintonclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/lin-dan-lunges.jpg

    Correct end position for lunge in badminton as applied in fencing.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yJDOhrT85Qo/UWlsfxU06XI/AAAAAAAACMU/5D1Qel7l-1s/s1600/lunge2.jpg

    Dato LCW lunge. http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Lee+Chong+Wei+Yonex+England+Open+Championship+ej3VIeSi1VFl.jpg
    Notice how his racquet foot points toward the contact point that he is most likely going to make with the shuttle.

    Same for lunges in the deep rearcourt as evidenced by this.
    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2012/08/06/sports/BADMINTON3/BADMINTON3-jumbo.jpg
    This is subject to slight change depending on situation but it is done on both fore and backhand side.

    Also regarding optimal usage of non racquet arm, i saw a few videos by Coach Lee Jae Bok, which IMO are simply superb. I also recommend watching his movement tutorials.

    Also,I felt the timing of the split step was a bit late?? not sure but it felt off. you have to time split step just before opponent contact so that the push-off projects you as early as possible into the direction of your shuttle contact. Movement from split step upto when racquet contacts with shuttle should feel fluid. High level play requires an almost comfortable fluid i should say walking/slow jog-like feel footwork(unless when arriving early to attack).

    On a ending note, just wanna say that also check your grips and see if you are using the correct ones as that is the base of your stroke. I dont know how to explain it via post so it will require someone to actively coach you on site.

    TL;DR: Late split-step, needs to be earlier. Incorrect non racquet arm postioning. Incorrect lunge technique. Watch Coach LJB for correct movement.
     
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  5. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Thanks for the comments. The non-racquet arm was already one of the things picked up from half a year ago - if you watch the previous video, it was much much worse (Practically punching myself in the deep forehand corner)!

    Lunge technique was also highlighted this time round by Charlie, and it's clearly a cause for concern, mostly for injury prevention than performance for me. Just a point of contention - the direction of the forward foot on lunge isn't necessarily where I'd aim to contact the shuttle - in fact, this happens to be one of my problems. Since I have a habit of over lunging, my foot pointing inwards would actually suggest my foot isn't turned enough (which is nonsense). The correct direction should be in the direction the body is travelling, such that you can bounce off and recover from a strong position. This is evidenced by your rear lunge photo of Lin Dan - his foot is pointed out of the back corner of the court, yet he is clearly contacting the shuttle in a path that isn't in line with his rear foot.

    I personally don't think the split step timing is a problem - I think my efficiency of the split step/first step could do much more to improve my game overall. I've reviewed it before with others, and generally have come to the conclusion that the timing is okay, but my follow-up to the split is poor.

    Grip-wise, my whole stroke needs adjustment, but the question is whether it's improved since half a year go.

    I'm looking for advice to improve, and it's important to have an end goal in sight, but it's good to keep in mind where I've come from. Changes happen gradually, and I'm keen to question whether I'm moving the right way.
     
    #45 DarkHiatus, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
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  6. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    I have read bits of the thread but not all of it so apologises if I repeat something that has already been said. I equally admit I haven't watched your previous video but I admire you posting footage with the view to improving. I am not going to comment on anything technical, but more so on your actual game play.

    There are three main things that come to mind that could significantly improve your game (even win this particular match if applied)

    Firstly, your pace of movement: A lot of the times in the rallies, you play a shot, and there is a slight pause before you return to your base position which in a competitive match, gives up precious time for your opponent. The quicker you recover from the previous shot, the more ready you are to react to your opponents response. An example of this is at 0.45, you play a cross drop - which is fine, but you take an extra split second to recover, making you late to the shuttle.

    Secondly, is your pace of shot: I could be wrong, but you don't seem to have much variety of pace on your shots, clears are all the same height and pace, you can mix up these depending on whether you wish to be aggressive in the rally or more defensive, likewise with drop shots, mixing up the pace gives yourself more time in the game because your opponent cannot already anticipate the speed or height in which your shot comes at.

    Lastly, MARGINS. Margins and unforced errors go hand in hand, especially at this level simply giving yourself about 20cm margins on the tramlines down the side to play with, you will cut down on the unforced errors. As you become more consistent in your play you can adjust the margins accordingly, but just give yourself a chance in the rally, there is no need to go for the lines on your shots.
     
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  7. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Some really good points that nobody has mentioned actually!

    On the recovery delay, it does appear that I spend a decent amount of time "ball-watching" as people have referred to it before. I think this is tied to confidence in my shots i.e. why bother running if I've got my drop into the net? A habit that I should definitely try to get rid of.

    On the pace of shots I agree, my shots aren't that varied in terms of speed - I'm still working on the basic shots themselves before varying them. Along with general deception and other more advanced techniques, I think this will have to wait till I've improved enough to deliver consistent shots.

    Finally, on margins it's the first time I've actually heard that! I have a tendency to return things to the middle when I'm not focusing, so in my training and matches, I actively try to hit to the sidelines, otherwise I end up not moving my opponent. I wouldn't quite agree that they are 'unforced' errors - for me, my opponent doesn't need to do much to put pressure on me, whereas a pro could clear back to back all day without breaking a sweat :p I do agree that my accuracy needs to improve.
     
  8. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Correct.

    More importantly, because this allows you to stop without placing lateral stress on the ankle and knee.
     
  9. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    So I have just got around to watching your video. Apologies - I can't remember all the great tips you have had and taken away from this thread, so inevitably some of what I will say will be repeated. If I were your coach, here are the things I would want to work on with you, in priority order:

    1. taking shuttles late in the rearcourt:
    forehand or backhand, if your goal is to play badminton, you must have great technique when late to the shuttle. In singles, 90% of all shots will be taken from a "late" or less than ideal contact point, so you really have to get that right. Your forehand technique currently gets the shuttle over the net, but is far from where it needs to be. You should get your whole body lower down (more crouched), and take a more "full" swing out to the side. The racket will generally want to be roughly vertical at contact (so you can play both cross court and straight shots). You should be able to hit drives and clears. Your current technique doesn't look very consistent, or able to generate much power. This is one of the very first things I teach new students - it teaches you to actually stay in rallies! You do not have any technique on the backhand, which lost you a lot of points.
    2. overhead power shots:
    The technique for power shots just isn't quite right here. Key things to fix: contact point height and position are holding you back. Your technique is off at the moment, for various reasons, but its actually not worth dwelling on whats wrong, when there are two things that must be improved (which will probably fix everything else). In short, you are currently taking the shuttle quite late (and low) for your clears and smashes (better on smashes than clears though). For reference, look at some of the "clipped" dropshots you played e.g. 5:17 rally. Look how much higher your contact point is for this dropshot versus every clear or smash. That is the kind of height in contact you should be pursuing.

    Other concerns:
    3. Net shot technique on the backhand side
    4. Forehand lift technique doesn't look very crisp to me

    Having said that, lots of things to like. I liked the singles, and I think you move well enough. Keep working hard, and when you fix your shot quality, you will be playing very well.

    Good luck

    Any questions, please ask.
     
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  10. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. I did get the feeling myself watching that I'm taking shuttle later than I can.

    The height of clipped drops are luck - the only reason I am getting that high is because there's no other shot I can play from that height when jumping backwards, reaching up. Given the lack of options in this outstretched position, the thought running through my mind is simply to reach up to get to the shuttle, and secondly to get the shuttle down.

    When I have more time to think, I'm not sure why I take it so low. I'm reviewing my overhand action, and I'm struggling to be honest. I know in my head taking it later means I take it further behind me, and also lower down. I think that coupled with the comments that I 'push' my strokes, it's likely that a reaching up motion with a 'pulling' motion will help this. I'll follow the advice @Cheung gave and try to tiptoe as I hit.

    I went back to the idea of throwing a ball as Gollum suggested which is giving me more power, but I'm not sure if that is helping the contact position...I think it's unlikely.

    On a related note, one thing that I've struggled with recently is taking a shot directly above me. In diagrams such as http://www.badminton-information.com/badminton_clears.html, clears are shown to be taken above your body, or even slightly behind. If I "throw" my racquet at the shuttle, it feels like I'm putting my energy towards the ceiling, and whip the racquet round to make the shuttle move forward, but it doesn't feel like good contact. When I normally clear, I prefer the shuttle in front of me. KC's video :



    shows that he contacts it in front of him too, so I'm not too bothered by this point, but it highlights my awkwardness at taking shots in a high position above me.

    Looks like my footwork has got to the point where now my racquet technique is holding me back. The racquet techniques seem to be much harder to change/learn!
     
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  11. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Remember, tiptoe in shadowing the clear or smash. I used to do it at home and measure the distance from my racquet head to the ceiling. If you have low ceilings, then you can't do this. LOL.

    When you have the shuttle, think reaching up to the shuttle rather than waiting for tge shuttle to fall.

    Many people have a low hitting point. It is because they only start their swing when the shuttle enters their hitting zone. You have to start to swing the racquet before the shuttle enters the hitting zone. Then, as the shuttle drops and enters the hitting zone, your racquet is now close to the near maximum height to make contact with the shuttle.

    In addition, I get the impression your hitting point on an overhead is actually a bit behind you.
     
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  12. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I completely agree with Cheung.
    My advice for you to remember: you do not need to worry about all the details and everything that is wrong, just try to take the shuttle earlier. This will result in a better contact point in front of you. Regarding the contact point over your head - stop worrying about it. The fact you let the shuttle drop is a huge sap for power, and will result in all kinds of "problems". None of them are actually problems, they are symptoms of a single problem: late contact point. It is really that simple! For now, stick to taking it in front of you when practising. All you need to do is get comfortable taking the shuttle earlier. This could take up to 6 months - thats ok! But if you video yourself every week, you will quickly see the differences :)

    A word of warning too... try to stop analysing and reviewing your badminton for a bit. Just focus on broadly what you want e.g. reach up more, and more and more! That may help prevent you over complicating all this technique stuff :) You have a great foundation, now just finish it off!

    And try not to fool yourself into thinking racket technique changes are "harder" than others - the moment you accept them as being easy, but will take time, then the pressure is gone. Just focus on what you want to do, and persevere even though the first 2 or 3 sessions could feel bad. It won't instantly feel great for most people - but you have to keep going in spite of that.

    Here are some tips for learning to take the shuttles earlier:
    1. If, as the shuttle is coming, you feel you could physically reach it now, then you are too late with your swing. You should have already hit it.
    2. Aim to hit the shuttle 1 metre higher than you currently are. It doesn't matter if you succeed in taking it that much higher - its just a cue to help you break your own barriers. Even once you have succeeded in taking the shuttle higher, repeat the exercise again. See if you can get it even higher again!
    3. Learn this with clears and half smashes. Full smashes will probably hinder your learning, but don't be surprised when the half smashes become a lot more powerful than you are used to.
    4. I believe your contact point could be as much as 1 metre in front of the body i.e. if left to fall vertically it would be 1 metre in front of where you stand - that's how much you have to reach for the shuttle!!!
    5. Finally, it may be wrong to obsess with the "height" of your contact, but the concern is more the "lateness" of your contact. Aim to reach as far as you possibly can to play the shot - but this doesn't always translate into reach for more height - it could be reaching further in front or to the side etc. You want to take the shuttle at full reach! Currently, you are bending your arm.

    Please remember: the above are coaching cues only: they may or may not represent how you will optimally hit the shuttle - they are just ways of you experimenting with your boundaries.

    Good luck!
     
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  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    To be honest, I didn't even mention this because of the many footwork, centre of balance, technique and positioning details that need correcting. I feel that by improving the basic technique and consistency, there is going to be quite a big improvement in these three areas anyway.

    For example, although we may say mix up high clears with slightly lower clears, the player may not have the consistent technique to perform this so the option is closed off.
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    My eight year old takes it late as well. I am trying to get her to change contact point to a higher position because taking it low has meant she tenses up her whole arm too much.

    A little quibble about KC's video.

    - Try not to prioritise on so many steps backwards first. Keep trying to change your contact point at home with shadowing in a stationary position and then only one side step backwards.

    - At 3.26 he says 'lock the wrist' - this is definitely a statement open to misinterpretation. Many people will 'lock' the wrist using muscle contraction as I believe the term originally comes from tennis terminology years ago. At that time, the relaxed forearm muscles (that control) wrist movement in the overhead powershots was not recognised. So keep the muscles relaxed at the start of the stroke. One does not have to 'lock' the wrist. It will naturally achieve that position if you keep a relaxed wrist and raise the elbow properly. Just as you hit the shuttle, you use what the Chinese call 爆炸力 - explosive power of your fingers and forearm.
     
  15. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Thanks for the advice. I'm really struggling with this one, and finding it quite hard to practise (ceiling is too low at home :( ). All I can seem to do is keep it in mind on my warm ups, but otherwise, as soon as I move my feet, the 'rhythm' for the foot movement and then contact seems to force me into taking it late. I'll keep having a bash for now!
     
  16. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    So I had a go at the clear rallies, aiming for the 100 shot rallies...it's extremely hard. The first 10 seem to go reasonably okay, but as I get more tired, either I run out of the energy for my ineffective swing, or i'm not moving to the right place, or both. I'm not completely sure.

    I realise the camera is in the worst position to check for racquet technique/pronation, but perhaps there is still enough of a glimpse to feed back something that might help me here? It's concerning to see my clears starting landing well short of the baseline after a short time :( For the later rallies, I am generally clearing when possible, and dropping when I think the clear is too uncomfortable, so you may get an idea of the boundary. I thought it would be useful for my opponent to be allowed drops so that I recover properly.



    P.S. My lunging does seem to have improved a bit here though!
     
    #56 DarkHiatus, Mar 10, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
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  17. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Some thoughts (I only watched the first two minutes):

    1. Getting tired is normal - you do not have optimal technique. Don't worry about it, but I highly recommend doing the drill at least once a week - you will be astonished at the improvements over time.
    2. You contact point is still low - its getting higher each time, but its still low. Try this: start with the racket in a higher racket carriage (think "upwards" rather than pulling the racket backwards at shoulder level), and then see if you can be having to reach up so high that your feet may slightly come off the floor (not jumping - reaching).
    3. Your partner is not helpful for this drill - both of you need to aim higher with your clears - give yourselves time to actually play the shots.
    4. Are you working on moving? Or clearing? I would do the drill without any movement until you get a really solid and effortless clear. Then add the movement back in if you want. This drill is currently confused - even when fresh, your movement, and the unhelpful trajectory of your opponents clears, prevents you actually performing a good shot. Now is the time to focus - fix the technique, forget about the movement, for this drill, for a few weeks - plenty of other times to practice movement!!!
    5. Do the drill in half court only - again, what are you working on? Clears! Not moving. Not backhands. Not drops. Clears.

    Those are my main thoughts. Funnily enough I did this same exercise yesterday, without movement. It was still tiring for my arm, which surprised me, and also tiring for my fingers - which just shows how little I really play! But by the end of the 100 I was playing a much higher quality of shot. All in all, it was a good few minutes.
     
  18. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Does this make sense as some sort of an extended warm-up? As in 100 clears to warm up, standing near the baseline instead of the 5-10 most people do?

    I found if I properly extend my left arm upwards, I tend to get a higher contact. Right now, I visualise it as almost like pulling a bow which pulls my elbow down. I'll try moving my arms apart where my racquet arm moves back without dropping my elbow.

    On another note - I know that lower clears leave me less time, so does this just mean my footwork has to be different, or is it such that I won't be able to use my full body to return a lower clear?
     
  19. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    In a game if someone punch cleared you like that you would probably drop or smash it. I end up with similar problems, people smash it at clear height or their clears go miles short. Makes this kind of exercise hard.
     
  20. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Surely I should still be able to play a clear off of their punch clear though? I know it's not helpful for this exercise in particular, but it happens in games, and I generally respond with a drop/smash, but I question whether this is acceptable. It sounds predictable if your opponent knows you won't clear if they play low clears!
     

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