Viktor Axelsen
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Yes, per https://bwfworldtourfinals.bwfbadminton.com/info/
"Reigning Olympic champions automatically qualify."
Sundis
Regular Member
I was thinking Lee Yang is coming back for the tournamentBit off topic (as not VA related), but how does it work for Wang Chi-lin, since Lee Yang retired?
Does Wang Chi-lin and Chiu Hsiang-chieh get a free pass to the WTF?
Maybe Lee Yang should come back for one last tournament ?
a great conversation w/ viktor:
finally, a top player unafraid to speak about bwf's problems. sh*it i've been ranting about for the past 35 years.
bwf is why badminton has not grown into a billion dollar sport like all other sports because it's a dictatorship lording over armies (the federations) that control the soldiers (the athletes).
you cannot be the regulating body, own the tournament circuit, and control the armies & soldiers at the same time.
bwf needs to explain how and why their system is beneficial to anyone involved.
finally, a top player unafraid to speak about bwf's problems. sh*it i've been ranting about for the past 35 years.
bwf is why badminton has not grown into a billion dollar sport like all other sports because it's a dictatorship lording over armies (the federations) that control the soldiers (the athletes).
you cannot be the regulating body, own the tournament circuit, and control the armies & soldiers at the same time.
bwf needs to explain how and why their system is beneficial to anyone involved.
Can you elaborate why that is a problem, and what's your proposal/solution?
in short it's a colossal conflict of interest.
before i end up possibly writing 250,000 words to address the major aspects of how a sport and it's athletes prosper in todays world did you watch the interview? viktor & ck bring up some major issues without being too explicit, yet. i hope they get more in depth in future sessions. it would be great to know how much the athletes actually know how their sport is governed & administered. the number of athletes that don't know would likely shock you, mainly because they're insulated by their federations.
i will address just one of the many issues: athlete independence.
do any of the regulating bodies of other major sports (team or individual) have any say regarding when, where or how much the athletes must play? in the team sports (nfl/mlb/nba/etc.) the commissioner's office and rules committee can't tell an athlete when/where they must play. the athletes aren't paid by the league admins.
same goes for the individual sports, and badminton is an individual sport which should be run more like golf, tennis, skiing & x-games where you are not owned by a domestic federation that has power over you: when and where you play, who you partner with in doubles, how you're trained, taking a cut of your prize money, setting rules on your behavior & life style, and most importantly restricting your sponsorship opportunities. it may not seem like it but the current system suppresses an athletes income. how much do the top tennis, golf, skiing & x-games athletes make? when the public & grassroots youth see that more of them get interested in pursuing it as a career.
how and why have those athletes income skyrocketed over the last 40 years while badminton has remained stagnant (deflated actually) in relative comparison? well that all ties into how their sports are governed and administered in conjunction with an athletes association... which is another 100,000 words on what bwf is not doing and/or not allowing.
"the badminton players association has no power." --viktor axelsen
i hated bwf more and more with each bwf tournament i directed. sad because i love every aspect of badminton: playing, coaching, tournament admin, watching, discussing, traveling to watch the best, tinkering with equipment, keeping up with latest training techniques at every level in the major countries, and so on and on and on.
if you want the sport & athletes to prosper we will have to accept some changes... like a new scoring system, and/or modifying finals day schedule. (another 50,000 word discussion)
the future is bigger and more important than what i want and like.
s_mair
Regular Member
@kwun
Wouldn't it make sense to move these posts to your other thread?
Just came back from a car ride during which I listened to the whole podcast - thanks a lot for that recommendation!
My main takeaways from it:
Viktor is smart and has always been willing to put in the effort and hard work needed to get to the position he is now in. And that's what each and every other top player has to realise at some point - you won't get handed your brand and the money and fame that comes along with it on a silver platter just by being good at badminton and sitting around waiting for the good things to happen. You need to build up a serious business around it and just be willing to put in the work and the startup money needed.
The current federation system is to some extent outdated and the players clearly need a bigger say in what is happening in their sport. On the other hand we shouldn't expect that good badminton players always have the same competence when it comes to business and marketing decisions. They will see the world through their own eyes and (understandably) have their very own interests in focus first.
What I've been missing during the whole conversation is just any specific suggestion what and how to change. He is very much focused on sheer money side of things - players getting more freedom in terms of sponsorships and a bigger share of the price money. Whilst this will improve the financial situation of the top players, I don't see this changing anything fundamental to push badminton in the public appearance on a global scale. On the contrary, if federations get less money from their top athletes, there will be less funding to support and push aspiring youngsters. A thing from which the current top atheletes surely have profited in their early years as well. So again, things are not just black and white and I just don't see any easy solution that will make all the stakeholders happy at the same time.
If badminton as whole wants to change, I don't see this change coming from the inside. The conflicts of interests between players, federations, sponsors and tournament organisers (and fans!) is just too big and I don't see a common understanding between all of them to actually change something fundamental.
If every party involved was brave enough, they would need to set up a team of mostly independent experts (also from other sports... see NFL...) and give them the freedom to come up with a truly new concept.
The big questions remain, and those everybody has to answer ourselves:
Does badminton in its core really need that much of a change? Is it really that broken and in decline? Do we really want it to become a public circus like how Formula 1 has developed over the past 10 years? What are the actual specific things we as fans like to change looking at today's badminton?
From my position as an active regional club league player and mainly as a fan, I don't think the situation is so bad. Watching top level badminton live in the hall is an amazing experience which is able to completely fascinate even complete noobs in a single day. If we manage to transport that experience better to the TV and internet broadcasts, this will be a huge first step in the right direction.
Wouldn't it make sense to move these posts to your other thread?
Just came back from a car ride during which I listened to the whole podcast - thanks a lot for that recommendation!
My main takeaways from it:
Viktor is smart and has always been willing to put in the effort and hard work needed to get to the position he is now in. And that's what each and every other top player has to realise at some point - you won't get handed your brand and the money and fame that comes along with it on a silver platter just by being good at badminton and sitting around waiting for the good things to happen. You need to build up a serious business around it and just be willing to put in the work and the startup money needed.
The current federation system is to some extent outdated and the players clearly need a bigger say in what is happening in their sport. On the other hand we shouldn't expect that good badminton players always have the same competence when it comes to business and marketing decisions. They will see the world through their own eyes and (understandably) have their very own interests in focus first.
What I've been missing during the whole conversation is just any specific suggestion what and how to change. He is very much focused on sheer money side of things - players getting more freedom in terms of sponsorships and a bigger share of the price money. Whilst this will improve the financial situation of the top players, I don't see this changing anything fundamental to push badminton in the public appearance on a global scale. On the contrary, if federations get less money from their top athletes, there will be less funding to support and push aspiring youngsters. A thing from which the current top atheletes surely have profited in their early years as well. So again, things are not just black and white and I just don't see any easy solution that will make all the stakeholders happy at the same time.
If badminton as whole wants to change, I don't see this change coming from the inside. The conflicts of interests between players, federations, sponsors and tournament organisers (and fans!) is just too big and I don't see a common understanding between all of them to actually change something fundamental.
If every party involved was brave enough, they would need to set up a team of mostly independent experts (also from other sports... see NFL...) and give them the freedom to come up with a truly new concept.
The big questions remain, and those everybody has to answer ourselves:
Does badminton in its core really need that much of a change? Is it really that broken and in decline? Do we really want it to become a public circus like how Formula 1 has developed over the past 10 years? What are the actual specific things we as fans like to change looking at today's badminton?
From my position as an active regional club league player and mainly as a fan, I don't think the situation is so bad. Watching top level badminton live in the hall is an amazing experience which is able to completely fascinate even complete noobs in a single day. If we manage to transport that experience better to the TV and internet broadcasts, this will be a huge first step in the right direction.
has it really? The revenue numbers from Yonex for example tell a very different story:
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Shreya Jha
Regular Member
Nicely put@kwun
Wouldn't it make sense to move these posts to your other thread?
Just came bake from a car ride during which I listened to the whole podcast - thanks a lot for that recommendation!
My main takeaways from it:
Viktor is smart and has always been willing to put in the effort and hard work needed to get to the position he is now in. And that's what each and every other top player has to realise at some point - you won't get handed your brand and the money and fame that comes along with it on a silver platter just by being good at badminton and sitting around waiting for the good things to happen. You need to build up a serious business around it and just be willing to put in the work and the startup money needed.
The current federation system is to some extent outdated and the players clearly need a bigger say in what is happening in their sport. On the other hand we shouldn't expect that good badminton players always have the same competence when it comes to business and marketing decisions. They will see the world through their own eyes and (understandably) have their very own interests in focus first.
What I've been missing during the whole conversation is just any specific suggestion what and how to change. He is very much focused on sheer money side of things - players getting more freedom in terms of sponsorships and a bigger share of the price money. Whilst this will improve the financial situation of the top players, I don't see this changing anything fundamental to push badminton in the public appearance on a global scale. On the contrary, if federations get less money from their top athletes, there will be less funding to support and push aspiring youngsters. A thing from which the current top atheletes surely have profited in their early years as well. So again, things are not just black and white and I just don't see any easy solution that will make all the stakeholders happy at the same time.
If badminton as whole wants to change, I don't see this change coming from the inside. The conflicts of interests between players, federations, sponsors and tournament organisers (and fans!) is just too big and I don't see a common understanding between all of them to actually change something fundamental.
If every party involved was brave enough, they would need to set up a team of mostly independent experts (also from other sports... see NFL...) and give them the freedom to come up with a truly new concept.
The big questions remain, and those everybody has to answer ourselves:
Does badminton in its core really need that much of a change? Is it really that broken and in decline? Do we really want it to become a public circus like how Formula 1 has developed over the past 10 years? What are the actual specific things we as fans like to change looking at today's badminton?
From my position as an active regional club league player and mainly as a fan, I don't think the situation is so bad. Watching top level badminton live in the hall is an amazing experience which is able to completely fascinate even complete noobs in a single day. If we manage to transport that experience better to the TV and internet broadcasts, this will be a huge first step in the right direction.
has it really? The revenue numbers from Yonex for example tell a very different story:
for clarity i was referring to the growth of the athletes income relative to each sport. for example look up the income growth in the time period of 1980 to present day for the individual sports like tennis, golf, x-games... why has badminton lagged?
* was it because ibf (int'l badminton fed) didn't want to, or know how to, monetize the sport?
*did they merely want to maintain control of the sport to enrich themselves? the current federation system they put in place, and bwf has kept, makes it look like control was their primary motive... i mean c'mon, why do the athletes have no say on the admin side of how the sport of badminton is run?
*why is bwf in complete control of how much the top players play? the federation system extends that control to the federations for all athletes.
*why are the athletes not allowed to play in any non-bwf sanctioned tournament for money like tennis players can?
ATP members can play in non-ATP tournaments, such as those on the ITF World Tennis Tour, as long as they comply with the ATP rules regarding entry deadlines and commitments to other tournaments during the same week; essentially, they cannot be entered into the main draw of an ATP tournament and a non-ATP tournament simultaneously.
what's the incentive for more youths around the world to pursue professional badminton as a possible career when comparing it to the other global sports? that's a major aspect of where the growth of any sport is headed.
s_mair
Regular Member
thanks for the clarification. Wasn't my intention to take that quote out of context, sorry for that.
and maybe, just maybe we have to consider that it's because badminton just doesn't have the same appeal and kind of a "coolness and hype potential" as other sports. From the top of my head I can't name any other individual indoor-only sport that commercially has gone through the roof like tennis, golf etc.
Table tennis? Squash? Not really happening anywhere that I'm aware of.
I honestly have no idea how much different this is in tennis or other commercially major sports. As mentioned before it is very rare that top athletes are also having a comparably good sense for strategic business decisions and marketing.
As for my part, I'm currently witnessing with my 6 y/o daughter how much fun and appeal is having to actually play it. She's started playing in my club 6 months ago and is enjoying it a lot! But truth be told, it is a very complex sport to learn for the really small kids. A lot of her friends from pre-school are in dance groups and they have cool things like public performances and stuff with investing very, very little effort. She on the other hand is now happy that she can manage to do a 5 shot front-court rally with the coach. It's just a tough learning curve.
If everything goes as planned, we will be visiting the quarter finals of the upcoming Swiss Open in Basel together - I'm so looking forward to that one!
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lurker
Regular Member
oooo... things got more interesting! thanks for sharing
a major factor is exposure. mainly tv network exposure, since that's where a big chunk of $ comes from through broadcast contracts. youth and parents see how much $ can be made, making it a worthwhile pursuit (gamble). even if you're not ever considering a career as an athlete the public in general loves to watch events where people compete for a lot of money: sports, game shows, reality shows, stunts, etc... this brings in eyeball #'s, which bring in more big sponsors. this is tied back to getting the optimal broadcast length to fit what tv networks are willing to cover.
"ATP Media, an arm of the men's professional tennis tour, generated revenue of over $200 million in 2023"
that money is a big factor in prize money.
individual sports have a 'players association' completely run by the players and team sports have a 'players union'. these entities deal with the regulating bodies and team owners over every issue: rules, revenue share/splits, schedule, marketing, the future, athletes rights, etc.
how can bwf's top committed player rule legally exist? are the athletes employees of bwf? hell no they're not. they use the federations to carry out their dictatorial orders.
Potential to be a top player! My daughter has been through the process
At that age, it is recommended to have different interests as well. Dance is good and help body awareness in different ways. Basketball and football are also good for developing coordination and judgement.
Yes interesting that he says he thinks the injury happened all the way back in 2018 and has been feeling it on and off since then. Apparently it got worse in the lead up to the olympics but he had some sort of injection that made it possible to compete there mostly painfree. But then again it got a lot worse after the olympics.
Seems like the surgery went well so the question now is if he will come back injury free and possibly better than ever or if he will struggle at his age to get back to his best. But considering he won the olympic gold with a back injury and not 100% and even a tournament this year while dealing with major back pain I think he has a good shot at becoming nr1 again, and maybe a 4th olympic medal.
Seems like the surgery went well so the question now is if he will come back injury free and possibly better than ever or if he will struggle at his age to get back to his best. But considering he won the olympic gold with a back injury and not 100% and even a tournament this year while dealing with major back pain I think he has a good shot at becoming nr1 again, and maybe a 4th olympic medal.