Was Chen Jin cheating?

Discussion in 'World Championships 2010' started by bogensaebel, Aug 29, 2010.

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  1. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Ok, some homework.

    Do what some players appear to be doing:

    1) Grasp the shuttle in your left hand palm,encircle the feathers with your fingers.
    2) Use the index or lower fingers and squeeze the stems inwards to weaken them.
    3) Alternatively hold the shuttle in your left hand and use your racquet hand to smoothen the feathers, then instead of
    smoothening the feathers,use the thumb and index and bend the stem outwards where it meets the feathers.
    4) I think weakening the stems have an effect of softening the shuttle and making it slower as it becomes unstable and
    less resilient because of weak stem/base, and it cannot be detected!
    Of course you need weight training to strengthen your left hand fingers to be able to press so hard undetected,

    Try it out and see if there is any noticeable effect.
    If it is true, there is no need for further discussion, we may owe some veterans an apology and its time for BWF
    to remind players not to tamper with the shuttle,even smoothening out the feathers. Now why did they remove that
    rule.
    I won't say its cheating just an unfair advantage like the S service. Also pity the poor geese, what with every player crushing the shuttle everytime they think it is too fast.
     
  2. logatech

    logatech Regular Member

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    Again "possibly a warning". How do you know? If you don't know, then you can't interpret it any way you like to.
     
  3. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

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    i was referring to everybody including me, not particularly you

    and yes objectively.

    there are some post i don't want to comment or answer as i think my opinion

    differ from him like a mile or 2. lol
     
  4. deca2000

    deca2000 Regular Member

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    You asked what my original question was supposed to mean. I am just telling you what I mean here. I want to know whether his reaction will change if the situation is reversed. That's all.

    So does this thread have anything to do with CJ, who apparently did not start this thread?:rolleyes:

    hehe, technically, every time somebody touches a shuttle, the shuttle is modified.
     
  5. logatech

    logatech Regular Member

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    Please do prove that your instructions are valid:
    1. the shape, or weight, or weight distribution of the shuttle are changed, and this alteration is un-detectable to naked eyes. A video that shows two shuttles, one with alteration, one without, would help a great deal
    2. the altered shuttle will benefit ChenJin, not Taufik
    3. how ChenJin do it when he serves, or a video clip that he was doing it

    Thanks
     
  6. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    Oh yes Im 100% understood what you meant. I was just saying its a bit hard to agree to disagree when the objective is not met by some poster here (not you).
     
  7. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    Then my respond was to prevent damage done

    Yes because the thread started asked was CJ cheated?



    Then you should admit that CJ modified the shuttle :)
     
  8. HicHic

    HicHic Regular Member

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    TH complained about the shuttlecocks too in last year's WC against CJ. I don't think TH is doing this to play mind games with CJ, because his complaint seemed too specific to be made up. He could have complained to the umpire for many different reasons, but him choosing this specific reason twice in a row seems odd. He didn't use this tactic against other players in the tournament either, so it doesn't seem likely that he was faking the complaint. It seems that TH truly believed that CJ did something to the shuttlecocks. Whether what he believed was true or not is hard to say, but it is apparent that TH was convinced that CJ was up to something. As mentioned earlier, TH often relies on his netplay to set up for his smashes. In his match against LCW and PSH, his netplay was very consistent. If there was some slight change in the shuttlecock, I would not be surprised if only a few of the top players (with very good touches) are able to detect it. In CJ's path to the finals, I think only TH and PG would be able to detect a problem with the shuttlecock. PG's netplay is also quite good, so if there were inconsistencies, he would be able to detect it. At 2:50 in this interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GO-22ARNk PG also said that the shuttlecock was "going VERY VERY SLOW" during the match against CJ, BUT he made no accusations. This means in both of CJ's matches against the top players, the shuttlecock was flying suspiciously slower than normal. *IF* CJ were to manipulate the shuttlecock, it would be wise of him to only do it to the tougher opponents, so that his chances of getting caught would be lessened. Still, there is not enough evidence to come to a conclusion, but it does seem a bit suspicious.
     
  9. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Before you all jump on me I am not saying CJ did the above ie. weaken the stems and softened it,

    He may APPEAR to do it to CONFUSE and annoy the sensitive Taufik, and you get really sensitive when you are may points down and not sure how the shuttle is going to behave, just as in Table Tennis.China coaches know Taufik very well.
    Even if you didn't manipulate the shuttle, the act of appearing to do so is already a psychological advantage.
     
  10. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

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    you remember immediately after taufik's complaint to the umpire (which nothing happened)

    he purposely let chen jin serve without receiving it and handed the shuttle to the umpire?
     
  11. Isometric_kid

    Isometric_kid Regular Member

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    What i'm reading here in this thread is a smorgasbord allegations of cheat by chen jin of tampering shuttlecock;making it too slow; making it too fast; making it unbalance; and making it heavy (with sweat). A poster said he saw it, another poster said he heard it from a commentator, plus instruction on how to manipulate a shuttle have been described but yet, the key man, taufik himself can not prove it while all his fans are certain of it. You can guess who are the fools here.

    If Taufik is so certain of shuttle tampering by chen jin, why doesn't he immediately show the damaged good to the umpire?? Instead, he showed the umpire a supposed tampered shutter that the umpire can't distinguish from a new one? The line judge can't tell the difference either. Why taufik is so silly of showing a good shuttle to the umpire and not damaged one?

    If I give you doubters the benefit of doubt that the shuttle damage is too minor and indistinguishable but still affect shuttle speed and/or flight, why didn't taufik demand a shuttle speed test? Surely, a tampered shuttle would flies at wrong speed and/or wobble which is visible for all to judge. Instead, the umpire gave back both shuttles to Taufik, like, take your pick Mr. Complainer. Why didn't Taufik didn't press the matter further? Because deep down Taufik knows he'll be a laughing stalk and would get a yellow card from the umpire.
     
  12. logatech

    logatech Regular Member

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    I guess Taufik may believe it. But have he explained why and how ChenJin does that at any occasions? No other players ever had complained about ChenJin on the same issue on the court.

    Thanks for providing the video clip. Peter Gade's whole sentence seems to be the following: "If I could continue what I did during the first game, then I could win. But he did his best to control the game afterwards, and played very fast. And the shuttles were very very slow, so it was difficult for me to make fewer mistakes. I tried the best I could, but he is stronger than me in the last two games".
     
  13. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    I replied via post 230.

    Try it out with a new tournament shuttle and satisfy yourself.

    I am not biased, just trying to learn a new trick or verify a scientific fact based on aerodynamics.

    CJ won the match fair and square, badminton is all about deception and not falling into the opponent"s trap.Even if there was abuse, BWF should be well aware of it.It is no different with serving above the waist, double action, or serving when your opponent is not ready.
    Videos will be posted eventually, but just reminder,it is one thing to crush a shuttle and another to appear to do so especially when you are playing irritable opponents, then you are just a good actor
    without actually breaking any rules. Videos will prove that CJ does it only against Taufik not for eg. against Gade (that's what I noticed and remenmered.)
     
  14. HicHic

    HicHic Regular Member

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    He suspected that CJ did something to the shuttlecock, but he was not too sure himself. For that reason, he may have lacked confidence to pursue the matter further. The change in shuttlecock's flight may also have been too minute to be detected in a speed test. It seems TH suspected something, but he wasn't too sure that his accusations were true. Even in 09 WC, he said to the umpire that the shuttlecock "is normally not like this." His vague wording shows that he is not too sure of himself. If he was sure, then he could have pointed out the exact problem with the shuttlecock (eg: too slow, fast, wobbly, etc).
     
  15. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Moderator : Please don't close this thread. We need to know the real truth. Hopefully someone will post some video evidence to clear Chen Jin's honourable name in Badcentral and back the Jia You's supporter's claim.

    You are obviously not a fan of Taufik.
    In red font : Can you claim that Chinese players are clean throughout.

    As for the umpire's decision, is there a "match report" after the game. Looking at the situation on the court at that moment, I don't think the umpire dare to make any decision that will upset any party, or was he powerless to do so and I don't think BWF can afford to offend the big boy (singular). This is only my opinion.
     
  16. Isometric_kid

    Isometric_kid Regular Member

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    It's a common dirty tactic used in politic. To take down a winning candidate, his opponent would throw all kind of poop allegation at him and hopefully some will stick. Taufik is a dirty player, you expects his diehard fans any less?
     
  17. logatech

    logatech Regular Member

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    Conspiracy, sweet conspiracy. Just your imaginations, no proofs. People are innocent unless proven guilty. You don't need to prove someone is "clean". He is clean. If you want to say that he is "dirty", give proofs.
     
  18. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    You are obviously new to this forum and I didn't refer to your post count when making this statement.
     
  19. logatech

    logatech Regular Member

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    I understand that people get superstitious all the time, for example, a lot of baseball players. If even Taufik wasn't sure about whether ChenJin did anything to the shuttle, how come some fans are so certain of. As I posted earlier, if Taufik really wants to find out, he can video-tape ChenJin's games, and keep as evidences. But he did not.
     
  20. logatech

    logatech Regular Member

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    This needs not to go personal. Whether I am new to this forum, or anything about me has nothing to do with this discussion. Do let me know if you want to get personal. Thanks.
     
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