Was Chen Jin cheating?

Discussion in 'World Championships 2010' started by bogensaebel, Aug 29, 2010.

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  1. hador7

    hador7 Regular Member

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    Do I have to be a fan of Taufik in order to comment on this situation? I'm not a fan of Chen Jin either. What I am a fan of is fair play and respect, something Taufik needs a lesson on.

    And no, I can not claim all Chinese players are clean. Can you claim all Indonesian players are clean? How about Danish players or English players? Japanese players? Korean players? Heck, can you claim Taufik is clean? I don't even know what point you are trying to make with your special red fonted words.

    I have seen your comments in the past on these forums and I can only say you are tremendously biased. Either you are very young, very uneducated, or you've grown up in an environment that fosters some sort of disdain towards other cultures. Either way, I feel sorry for you.

    Fact of the matter is: Chen Jin did not cheat. There is no evidence of it at all. There is something called innocent until proven guilty and I suggest this thread be closed until there is valid evidence. Otherwise, you are simply tainting Chen Jin's character and that is just not right.
     
  2. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    So, it takes Taufik that long to figure out that "the shuttle is not normal"...

    Ok, if he uses the same amount of energy try to figure out a useful strategy to counter attack CJ's superior player every since beginning, then I assume TH might have a better chance to win the title.

    Talking is cheap. Champion is won on the court, not the talks off court.
     
  3. pejantan

    pejantan Regular Member

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    if we re talking what THs attitude recently....i think he didn t need to lesson anything, both fair play and respect, TH never discredit his opponent achievement, he always said that he is loosing, phisical, tecnical and speed from LD, LCW, CJ....i think it s his right to argue or complaining to referee if something happened, but he also know that referee decide true or not

    not agree with you, the fact is:
    1. CJ is the world champion
    2. TH never discredit that achievement, no reason except CJ is more powerful, faster,stronger than him (in press conference)
    3. We are never know what is really happen...if u ask CJ, he surely answer nothing, if u ask TH he will say that CJ doing something with the shuttle
    4. The referee didnt fault CJ serve, but it look like he always watch CJ hand if he hold the shuttle cock
     
  4. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    i think after everyone's input Taufik, cheating and Chinese pride have become non-issues, continuing may cause the thread to be closed.

    More interesting would be :

    1) Can a shuttle be damaged undetected and the damage cannot be seen?
    2) Why did Cj go thru all the motions of stroking and twisting the shuttle in front of the service judge and in full view of the camera. Is he stupid or too clever? And why just when playing a particular opponent?
    3) Is the BWF and officials mr. Scaredy Cat when dealing with China players?Then China players should enjoy many privileges like high serves, moving before service, in called out and vice versa etc. etc.Or is it because BWF officials don't play badminton too and know nothing about shuttles? I have seen some officials play very well when they are on court.
     
  5. RSLvictorSOTX

    RSLvictorSOTX Regular Member

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    Aboslutely it can be altered (whether it's perceptible or imperceptible is another point just like feel is sensory perceptible yet quantifiable measurements shall prove the results neither accurate nor uniform.)! Psychological disruption is pretty what everyone can do fairly easily; just being a fidgety snotty squirming guy will do for one (it may not...). Whereas, playing with an altered shuttle is a lot harder to perfect and needs lots of practice; not for a lackadaisical guy at least.

    Probably, we are discussing this in a wrong thread. It should neither be ''Was So and So Cheating?'' but rather ''Can a shuttle be manipulated?''. Otherwise, continue hereon just makes tempers fly and causes much friction yet arguing perhaps for something slightly off-topic!

    Again, I say, I am a Taufik fan but more importantly I acknowledge Chen Jin won it outright! Furthermore, shuttle manipulation discussion can be aired in another thread.
     
  6. RSLvictorSOTX

    RSLvictorSOTX Regular Member

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    pBmMalaysia and Bbn,

    Quite obviously, the alteration issue is not for us to splay here since I can fairly say we already have a clear grasp of the nuts and bolts of the manipulation process (admittedly, an unfair advantage.), which by the way, judges, players and social players (to some extent) already had known a long time (my uncles knows). Continuing on these causes lots of tension at the wrong thread I think.

    Cheers,
    RvS
     
  7. hador7

    hador7 Regular Member

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    So you don't believe in innocent until proven guilty? If that's the case, then I'll say Taufik cheated and unless you provide me with evidence that he didn't, he is guilty. See what I did there?

    There is no evidence of tampering. That's a fact. Until there is, there is no reason for this thread to exist. As I said, the only thing this thread will do is call Chen Jin's character into question which is plain wrong. And some people in this thread such as Nokh88 have even made it an issue of race, which is absurd.

    I agree with RSLvictorSOTX in that the title of the thread should be changed if it is to continue. The current thread title is way too demeaning. Otherwise, it should be closed.
     
  8. Isometric_kid

    Isometric_kid Regular Member

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    This is not new in other sports. When one is successful consistently, there'll alway be some one or some group want to shoot you down, slander you, make up allegations and false accusations.

    Take the beloved Yuna Kim.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC7yjO5X9Oc

    She is also accused of Fix Queen, Vancouver Judges were Bribed, Yuna hate other skaters, Yuna is hated by other skaters, etc.

    This chen jin was cheating claim is really a farce.
     
  9. eaglehelang

    eaglehelang Regular Member

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    Yup, seems like it. Some of them dont know what mud slinging had happened to non China players, all in the name of free speech ;);)
    But how come you pulak get involved here? Merdeka day hols eh? :D
     
  10. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

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    yes, i have put a rest on this

    sensing it could explode anytime
     
  11. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    CJ is a very good player and I am sad that his name is tainted. Maybe he should not have repeatedly stroke or do "whatever you may term it" to the shuttle. Maybe he should drop the habit. This is causing uneasiness to his fans even if he wins fair and square. Hopefully one day in the future the truth will be out. Until then let's enjoy his win and celebrate the birth of a New World Champion.
     
  12. Isometric_kid

    Isometric_kid Regular Member

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  13. jasonmarc

    jasonmarc Regular Member

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    Its funny, When LCW said he had an injury during the match against TH, TH fans/Supporters were so afraid that's will denial TH credits for that win and start protesting......

    Now, CJ beat TH in the final, they started a thread saying CJ cheating by tempred the shuttlecock and trying to denial CJ's credit in winning the WC Gold.......

    Two contrasting situation here....!!
     
  14. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    all, whether this thread get closed or not will be determined by you all. the discussion so far has been quite ok, there are a few who rushed to conclusion quickly but mostly people are trying to rely on factual reasoning. keep cool, keep the discussion civil and keep a positive attitude. respect each other's views.

    thanks all
    .
     
  15. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    Cheers Kwun.

    Here is my final summary on my stand about the Final match.

    Watching the match was akin to drinking milk. It felt abit funny but still looked and tasted like milk. I however felt that something was strange and JUMPED to the conclusion that the Milk Might Be Tainted. Some others who drank the milk came to the same conclusion but many other disagreed as well.

    Some felt that Chen Jin was the perpetrator but others figured it could be Taufik who gave us the bad milk.

    And to answer Deca2000, I will honestly give my opinion when such a match incident arises. Every different situation is different.

    The Final answer is No Will Will trully know. Chen Jin is the World Champ and I have little qualm about that. Time to move forward.

    agree to disagree with each other. I won't change your opinion and you prolly won't manage to change mine.

    Cheers, Chill and Be Happy.
     
  16. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    I'm also wondering if there were any posters who commented about the milk but did not actually drink the milk.

    Those are my favourite people.

     
  17. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    and no one so far have provided any video evidence to support or otherwise.

    i admit i tried to do so but failed miserably (as usual) with the video editing phase. video edit programs somehow hates me. the flv format that i got from the download forum isn't well accepted format.
     
  18. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    a little detour but an interesting one perhaps...

    We can establish that Taufik Gets upset. Easily done. What we haven't establish is rather that he gets upset for invalid reasons.

    Case in point. Asian Games in Korea.

    Taufik Threw His Tantrum and left the court. His reason.... He claimed (at best my memory serves me...) of extreme bias line judging.

    He sort of claimed he wouldnt play in Korea Again. I remember there were many complaints from the Malaysian contingent in other sports (something to do with horse ridding and etc.) about foul play.

    Whatever it was... BWF ignored the 'bad boy of badminton'.

    fast forward few years later, Lin Dan vs LHI incident mired with heavy line judging issues..... BWF decided post mortem that the Korea BA was at fault for the fiasco for not providing an unbiased tournament officiating environment.

    Without trying to place ethnic prejudice on Korea... I must connect the 2 incidents as related based on 'just how things are'.

    This is 1 situation i can come with. Because of that, I strongly believe that Taufik Hidayat cries foul only with best of intentions.
     
  19. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Let us look at what the laws of the BWF say about tempering of shuttlecocks during play. Law 16.6.2 says that a player shall not deliberately modify or damage the shuttle in order to change its speed or its flight. Obviously, the words "modify" and "damage" imply that these can be verified by the umpires so that they can implement Law 16.7 to deal for such a breach. In the CJ/TH case umpires did have a look but found no breach.
    Law 16.7 deals with punishment for such a breach.
     
  20. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Well here are some clips for those who can't wait.

    [video=youtube;NYPX7QvvYDo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYPX7QvvYDo[/video]
     
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