Was Chen Jin cheating?

Discussion in 'World Championships 2010' started by bogensaebel, Aug 29, 2010.

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  1. Isometric_kid

    Isometric_kid Regular Member

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    The thread title should had read 'Was Taufik Hidayat cheating?' It is a well known trademark of Taufik to delay game, break opponent's rhythm although no chinese fans wrote a big post or create a thread about it

    It is also a fact that FHF was only smashing 280-300 kmh in the final, far less than his game record smash speed of 324 kmh (or higher). What on earth? Did the Malaysian pair KKK and TBH manipulated the shuttlecock too? OMG

    BTW, Taufik's strength is the drop shot and cross court slicing. Having a slower shuttle would be to Taufik's ADVANTAGE.

    Bottomline, this thread is just sour grape and worthless piece of allegation.
     
  2. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Personally I doubt with all the cameras and tv and press in the WC if chen jin could manipulate the shuttles THAT much to affect the speed it would be higly visible on recordings.. So you just dig these recordings up for proof :).. I watched the game and I really did not see any manipulation that could affect the speed of the shuttle very much.

    The 'effect' of the smashes could also be explained by some added effort by Taufik after the break. The speed of the smashes from the radar was also pretty consitent slower from Taufik than from CJ.. I cannot really se how he could amnipulate the shuttle so his smashes retained the speed and only Taufiks got slower..

    I think we may all be looking for some explanation why our favorite did not win.. Looking at the match is was pretty clear though to me that CJs tempo was beyondTaufiks and that his fitness and speed simply was not enough compared to CJ.

    /Twobeer

    P.S. They way i interpreted the discussion Tauifk and the umpire had, when I watched it live, it looked like the umpire didnt find anything wrong with the shuteel and wanted to compare with a new.. He then mixed them and asked taufik to use either of them, and Taufik did not seem to know which of the two shuttles was which, after the mix of them..
     
    #42 twobeer, Aug 29, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  3. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Well, some may think it is unetical of you to refuse tipping if the shuttles are to fast to begin with...

    And btw no brand/model of shuttles are "are intrinsically slow", they come in different speed based on what is neede to get the correct speed for the current conditions.

    /Twobeer
     
  4. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    Tipping on shuttles in in ternational tournaments. The shuttles are tested and that speed used so the feathers are untouched. Sometimes in games you see the players delay the start then use a different speed.

    That is what the lines at the rear of the court are there for. In Club/local games you don't have the luxury of getting a slower/faster speed, so you tip the shuttles either in or out to make them faster or slower.

    And it is illegal if he did it in the game....
     
  5. bogensaebel

    bogensaebel Regular Member

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    when did i say everytime...normally he reached that speed once or two times...n said before chen jin played solid...read the whole posts before condeming others....n this is open for discussion....
     
  6. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    FIY that was the fastest of the tournament ;) 303 km/h
     
  7. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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  8. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    From the footage seems like Taufik was complaining about the diameter of the shuttles. This is not the first time,it happens everytime he plays Chen Jin. I think china players know Taufik's temper really well, Xia and Bao used this tactic years ago
    and played with with his emotions to distract him.
    Why would a class player use such a cheap trick in front of the world? Tipping a shuttle would be clearly visible.
    I think it is all psychology, CJ makes a lot of motions appearing to manipulate Taufik in order to annoy and distract him and Taufik just fell for it, even the umpire and line judge laughed at Taufik' protests, I think everyone knows Taufik.
    The irony is things have not changed after years and years of experience.
    i think CJ 's victory comes in part from Xia, Xia knows how to beat Taufik and Peter Gade.
     
  9. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    That's what I thought as well and somehow at the time it did look wider to me :D. They've only played 3 times before and how many of those were even broadcasted?
    But comparing today to Taufik's QF and SF he didn't seem to look for the lines as much, perhaps because he missed a few early on. Chen Jin is too good to play safe margins ...
    I do love XXZ is in the coaching team now :cool:. Maybe he can bring the offensive CJ back ...
     
  10. kuwichert

    kuwichert Regular Member

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    mymy, what speculations are going on here? Also some comments of 'no motivation' or 'bad stamina' shown by Taufik - what's wrong with the world? The simple fact is that CJ was the better one today, Taufik tried different tactics, was playing mind games - why not? it's part of the game, and a champ will end up as the winner whatever the opponent tried, where is nothing to complain.
    Just because CJ was the quicker one Taufik did not show bad stamina - there are very quick ones, somebody is slower - why not? When stamina problems appear (folks I know very well what I'm talking about! ) the speed and quickness gets down rapidly - I did not see that - just saw that CJ is a little quicker - and that made the difference - nothing to discuss. Missing motivation? Didn't you see that he tried everything possible - it simply did not work. Why should he try that and not let it go as he did when he really wasn't motivated? Of course - when you try everything and whatever you do or try - the success simply does not appear- also here I know what I'm talking about! - you get frustrated, but that does not mean there is no motivation! Don't mix up the topics - CJ was the better one - that's it. The silver medal is very well deserved based on his performance over the week.
     
  11. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    "Frustrated" is the key word. Taufik did show some brilliance at the net in the closing stages,

    and he stopped Cj in his tracks with many drop shots. But CJ was just too fast and Taufik's chances were few and far

    between so he was restricted. It is all very solid tactics,not allowing the opponent what he likes to do best.

    Its amazing how Taufil can play so well agianst LCW and Park but get all tied up against CJ. I think it is exactly what

    Ian Wright mentioned,Taufik just hates to play CJ and when he plays CJ all the worst comes out.
     
  12. supernova

    supernova Regular Member

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    i'm SO MUCH impressed by all super judges in "amateure" level (as admitted in some of posts above) basing their judgement in front of a TV or live streaming of a computer.

    I TRUELY believe BWF should just fire those international certified umpires and service
    judges and hire you guys in the next world championships.

    Let me just ask you guys a questions, how many official games have you judged in the past?
    Do you think those umpires/service judges were being blind-fold?

    Let's give some respects to the BWF officials and the players.
     
  13. kuwichert

    kuwichert Regular Member

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    yep - completely agree with that
     
  14. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    Obviously Canada is the place to be for World Class badminton year around :cool: I've been around the so called "highly qualified international certified umpires and service judges" often enough to know how amateuristic it all is.
    But I didn't bring up this topic and don't agree with it either, just don't kid yourself the refereeing level is out of this world ;). At times you'd think they have the attention span of a two year old :p.
     
    #54 demolidor, Aug 29, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  15. kuwichert

    kuwichert Regular Member

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    ??? don't mix up the topics, nobody talks about referees in Canada - didn't see amateurs on Umpire chairs or doing the job as service judge during the closed WC - and that's we're only talking about!
    Mistakes by line judges - that happens everywhere and is also out of discussion here.
     
  16. jasonmarc

    jasonmarc Regular Member

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    Yes, totally agreed..........

    I think its just TH tactics to distrurb CJ concentration........

    I can recall every times TH play CJ, he tends to complaint about the shottlecocks............
     
  17. jasonmarc

    jasonmarc Regular Member

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    Its OK, TH did mentioned his focus is on AG not this WC............wait untill AG to revenge la...!!
     
  18. pejantan

    pejantan Regular Member

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    be fair....there s only 2 possibility
    1. Chen Jin really manipulate the shuttlecock
    2. It s just TH mind game

    i dont know what kind of manipulation with the shuttle, but if u remembered, last year CJ did the same and TH complaining to the referee too. I ve an opinion bout what CJ did, if u watch his left hand, especially his finger, he usually hold using 3 finger deep inside the shuttle and the tumb outside, he hold realy tight...do u know what player that hold the shuttle in that way??? can u imagine how width that 3 finger of a big man like CJ...so ithink that make the shuttle slower and tend to be rather unbalance...maybe it fit CJ style but TH dislike it....that s is TH right to argue to the referee, but its up to the referee to make the decision

    besides, i think CJ is the best allrounded player today, he has very solid defense and good footwork....congrat to CJ, congrat to TH that show us again his talent
     
  19. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Fair comments, nobody likes opponents meddling with the shuttles, maybe it will introduce some kind of germs

    and bad luck/charms. The officials know their job.

    Best solution is to ignore it completely and concentrate on the game. Maybe we should try this tactic against opponents in tournaments and see how their game drops when they they are not allowed to get their way.
     
  20. benjamin59

    benjamin59 Regular Member

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    from what you said. TH normal smashes are over 280 = (ok not everytimes, my bad) but more often than not everytimes he did smash it should be at least 280 or beyond.
    TH lost because CJ managed to disrupt TH game plan and never allow him to smash NORMALLY. CJ was playing an attacking game and would prefer a faster shuttle.

    Those people are just sore over their player losing and trying to discredit the winner. If you managed to convince majority of the people to believe a lie it would become a truth.

    TH is still a good player but never won an SS tournament although he was in many finals. so it was normal he lost again in this final. Everytimes he get into a SS and major final he lost.

    TH is talented but without proper training and good sparring partners now that he is on his own it will not be easy for him to win every match he contested. LCW trained very hard that's why he won a lot of tournaments.
     
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