Was this match situation resolved properly?

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psyclops

Regular Member
At the end of rally in second game at the Swiss Open 2021 XD, this happened:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CMCtFMDp7kr/?igshid=1uf530l2pj5jc

The court is in a 4 line judge configuration.
It looks like one of the end courts, as there was no live stream available at least on the official channel.

What is seen:
Baseline line judge signals shuttle landed IN.
Blue team wins rally.
Red player picks shuttle comes toward net, then gestures for court wiping.
All players take drink and towel off.
Discussions, lots and lots.​


Please discuss what to do to resolve this situation properly.

There are several aspects here that are related to maintaining focus, and teamwork, and empathy. As an umpire, you cannot enforce sportsmanship, so we leave that for another sub-forum.
 
Unfortunately, we don't see the sideline judge (it's behind us on the right). To me, it seems likely that the line judge confused singles and doubles lines, and thus called out when the shuttle was in – in doubles.

The umpire seemed surprised both times. Of course you can and should overrule if you see it's in by 30cm, but if you are surprised and occupied by looking at both line judges (sitting at totally different directions), I understand one could be unsure of what happened and forgo overruling.

The service judge doesn't sit in a great position on the opposite site of the court, so I would be hesitant to step in if I were her, especially if there were players between her and the shuttle.

The referee can follow the match and exchange or talk to the line judge. Without having a video replay of the incident and thus knowing it was in by a lot (and the line judge likely confused lines), the referee can't do anything; the umpire correctly reported the line judge indicated Out, so what else is the referee gonna tell the players but to play on?
With video replays, the referee should exchange or talk to the line judge.
 
phihag said:
Unfortunately, we don't see the sideline judge (it's behind us on the right). To me, it seems likely that the line judge confused singles and doubles lines, and thus called out when the shuttle was in – in doubles.

The umpire seemed surprised both times. Of course you can and should overrule if you see it's in by 30cm, but if you are surprised and occupied by looking at both line judges (sitting at totally different directions), I understand one could be unsure of what happened and forgo overruling.

The service judge doesn't sit in a great position on the opposite site of the court, so I would be hesitant to step in if I were her, especially if there were players between her and the shuttle.

The referee can follow the match and exchange or talk to the line judge. Without having a video replay of the incident and thus knowing it was in by a lot (and the line judge likely confused lines), the referee can't do anything; the umpire correctly reported the line judge indicated Out, so what else is the referee gonna tell the players but to play on?
With video replays, the referee should exchange or talk to the line judge.
Click to expand...
Is it too much to ask for for the umpire to admit that he didn’t have a clue on what was going on and had to rely on the line judge’s call (and could do nothing if the call was wrong because he didn’t see it)? The umpire kept saying “he/she called it out” which IMO is not a satisfactory explanation.
 
Hbmao said:
Is it too much to ask for for the umpire to admit that he didn’t have a clue on what was going on and had to rely on the line judge’s call (and could do nothing if the call was wrong because he didn’t see it)? The umpire kept saying “he/she called it out” which IMO is not a satisfactory explanation.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand your suggestion. If the umpire didn't see the shuttle – or did not think the call was outrageously wrong – then [the line judge] called it out is the correct explanation, isn't it?

What would you have done in this situation as the umpire?
 
quite a low res video,
while i can recognise the service judge to be Estonian Iris Metspalu

is the umpire the same one in Lee Cheuk Yiu vs Vittinghus?
 
phihag said:
but if you are surprised and occupied by looking at both line judges (sitting at totally different directions), I understand one could be unsure of what happened and forgo overruling.
Click to expand...
Isn’t the umpire supposed to be looking at the shuttle, then the linesman? The umpire is allowed to overrule obvious mistakes.
 
Cheung said:
Isn’t the umpire supposed to be looking at the shuttle, then the linesman? The umpire is allowed to overrule obvious mistakes.
Click to expand...

Certainly! But after looking at the obvious line judge (baseline) and only then noting that the other line judge at the other end of the court called out, I can understand that one can be confused and think "the original call was close" without remembering it was close to the baseline and in by a lot to the sideline.
 
phihag said:
I'm not sure I understand your suggestion. If the umpire didn't see the shuttle – or did not think the call was outrageously wrong – then [the line judge] called it out is the correct explanation, isn't it?

What would you have done in this situation as the umpire?
Click to expand...
Admit that he didn’t see it and he had to go with what the judge said. I know what he said kind of implied that he didn’t see it. But it would still mean something to the athletes if he explained that part.

when I was a basketball referee, the senior guys always tell us to “lend an ear” to the players and the coaches. A not excessive amount of communication can only help.
 
Hbmao said:
Admit that he didn’t see it and he had to go with what the judge said. I know what he said kind of implied that he didn’t see it. But it would still mean something to the athletes if he explained that part.
Click to expand...

Agree.
 
lurker said:
quite a low res video,
while i can recognise the service judge to be Estonian Iris Metspalu

is the umpire the same one in Lee Cheuk Yiu vs Vittinghus?
Click to expand...

Hmm! Identification from low res, possibly hand-held mobile! Bravo.

However, it is of no consequence who the umpire is. Only the action taken. And for this sub-forum discussing what action(s) should help improve umpiring, and the outcome.
 
phihag said:
Certainly! But after looking at the obvious line judge (baseline) and only then noting that the other line judge at the other end of the court called out, I can understand that one can be confused and think "the original call was close" without remembering it was close to the baseline and in by a lot to the sideline.
Click to expand...

... and only then noting that the other line judge at the other end of the court called out, ...
How was this found from the posted clip?
Which other line judge? Which other end?

The line judge is the one with orange jacket. I did not hear any OUT call from the sideline judge (located beyond bottom of view), left of umpire (hidden behind the livescore panel).

Your point about remembering it was close is good. However, when following proper mechanics, reliance on memory can be easily avoided.

I am looking for the match video, which I am certain should be available somewhere.
 
Cheung said:
Isn’t the umpire supposed to be looking at the shuttle, then the linesman? The umpire is allowed to overrule obvious mistakes.
Click to expand...

When the shuttle landed the umpire has an unobstructed view of the landing site.
There did not appear to be obvious mistake from the baseline line judge. The body language from both players (red male, blue male) was clear.

Proper mechanics at end of this rally should be:
  • Acknowledge line judge call
  • Announce rally outcome by saying the scoreline | In this case, it should be increment point to blue team
  • Tell player to return shuttle to blue team
  • Call the wiping crew | which here is the same line judge who made the line call
  • Arbitrate shuttle change request (from red team)
  • Re-announce scoreline | as it is a slightly longer break from action
  • Instruct Play

Most umpires do not instruct players to return shuttle to the team who will serve next.
It has been a practice by players to request wiping court while leaving shuttle where it landed. Then force the umpire to instruct them to take court. Then they powder their grip. Then go toward shuttle. Then request change of shuttle. It all adds up.

This is why a simple change in mechanics will avoid the loss of focus situation that is caused by long delay.

This is also why, it is critical that the service judge help the umpire with the last call. This is easily done by mimicking the call that was made, and then help umpire by providing information on which side will serve next.

An obvious mistake by the umpire can only be over-ruled by, you guessed it, by the umpire, and the referee. The service judge can help, and should, avoid this situation.
 
Cheung said:
@psyclops

Mistakes will always happen. Hopefully, these sort of things will be minimised with professional umpires which is something I mentioned many years ago.

In the meantime, we do now have semi professional umpires which is a good thing

http://www.badmintoneurope.com/cms/default.aspx?clubid=4685&m=8445472&cmsid=239&pageid=5381
Click to expand...

I do recall your exasperated posts after there was a glut of umpiring errors during the WCs.

Semi-pro, pro, that does not do anything. The approach to umpiring must be professional. So far, it looks same-o same-o.
 
psyclops said:
... and only then noting that the other line judge at the other end of the court called out, ...
How was this found from the posted clip?
Which other line judge? Which other end?

The line judge is the one with orange jacket. I did not hear any OUT call from the sideline judge (located beyond bottom of view), left of umpire (hidden behind the livescore panel).
Click to expand...

May assumption is that the sideline judge showed out and was too quiet for us to hear, maybe due to the mask.
This is because the umpire looks at the sideline judge in a somewhat surprised way at 0:04.
 
phihag said:
May assumption is that the sideline judge showed out and was too quiet for us to hear, maybe due to the mask.
This is because the umpire looks at the sideline judge in a somewhat surprised way at 0:04.
Click to expand...

In a video that was posted from a betting live-stream (now removed), you can hear the sideline line judge was loud during OUT call earlier in match. The mask argument is therefore not supportable.

In any case, there was failure in mechanics from umpire to communicate the outcome.

Other clues that are available are from the Blue team. They are the ones who protested. The Red team did not argue and are letting the umpire make decision. I find that this is where the service judge should have helped the umpire, either correcting the error, or supporting the decision. Looking closely at the service judge there does not appear to be any visible gesture. This is not only error from umpire, it is team failure.
 
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