what's wrong with the draw?

Discussion in 'Thomas Cup / Uber Cup 2010' started by 2cents, May 12, 2010.

  1. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    2
    Occupation:
    Landlording, providing vacation homes at Disney wo
    Location:
    Vacation Home @ Disney World
    everybody knows China, Korea, Denmark, Malaysia and Indonesia are the best 5 team, how come all China, Korea, Denmark, Malaysia in the upper draw and only Indonesia in the bottom half?

    More weird is that China just defeat Korea, and Indonesia just defeat India in the group, then they were arranged again in the elimination round. What's the logic and rules here? I have never seen such a rule in my whole life watching any sports?

    Did I miss anything?
     
  2. simonlovers

    simonlovers Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,758
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    indonesia
    Because last year KOR get runner up position because the draw..

    now..they get quarterfinalist position because draw..(beside no Lee Yong dae, and other reason(s) )

    FAIR !!
    :D
     
  3. Dreamzz

    Dreamzz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,134
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    London & Penang
    errrmm, isn't the draw meant to be random?
    so the teams that top their groups are randomly selected against the runners up of the groups.
    hence the draw is valid ...
     
  4. kenny7_2006

    kenny7_2006 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Messages:
    644
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Working student...
    Location:
    Malaysia
    this problem arose because Malaysia lost to Japan and Korea is the 1 of the 5 not seeded, hence the top heavy draw... anyway it's done, so let's just enjoy the tournament...
     
  5. JWhue

    JWhue Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Tuscaloosa, AL, USA
    Yes, keeny7_2006 and Dreamzz are right. This draw did throw up intresting combinations though. I suppose case closed?
     
  6. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    22,187
    Likes Received:
    4
    Occupation:
    kuli
    Location:
    malaysia
    yes
    u missed something
    sorry
    i mean
    lot of thing:D
    this is how badminton get interesting:D
     
  7. Wong8Egg

    Wong8Egg Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    I still don't understand how Korea and India are draw to play the same opponent repeatedly. Was it by random??? How does the draw work?
     
  8. JWhue

    JWhue Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Tuscaloosa, AL, USA
    The draw works by having all the Group Winners seeded, and whoever finished group runner-ups have to play ANY group winner. So Malaysia (runner-up) played Denmark (group C champion). Korea and India repeated their matches, but they were runner-ups as well.
     
  9. yutaro

    yutaro Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Perlis, Malaysia
    you put Korea, MAS, India and JPN in a bowl..shake, shake, shake....
    then pull out the names...
    it just coincident that Korea have to play CHN twice...
     
  10. kenny7_2006

    kenny7_2006 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Messages:
    644
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Working student...
    Location:
    Malaysia
    that's the problem with an open re-draw, should be like the football Champions League, where you cannot meet your own group winners or runners-up again... but with 4 groups only, that narrows down to 3 possible opponents for each team, ie minus other group winners/runners up and your own group qualifiers...

    anyway, it's already semis stage, so forget it...
     
  11. DoublesPlayer

    DoublesPlayer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    USA
    the true winner will still win ... i think china will win both thomas and uber cups
     
  12. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    2
    Occupation:
    Landlording, providing vacation homes at Disney wo
    Location:
    Vacation Home @ Disney World
    sure the winner will win the final cup. But if we only need to determine who's the winner, we should not have the group round, instead it should use elimination all the way to the end. Only that way, we know there is only one, the true winner, win all the way, have never lost.

    What if Korea had beat China in the group, but lost to China in the elimination, that way, even if China won the Thomas cup, it's not an absolute true winner.

    On the other hand, let 2 teams play again, then there's nothing for the group winner benefit. Only playing the other group runner up, sounds like an advantage. Also, playing again in the elimination, actually makes the 1st team matche invalid. It's like slapping on it's own face.

    Playing the group round, can rudece the system error, and make the tournament more fair for the final runner up position. Say, if Korea is the 2nd best in the world, if in whole elimination, if could be out of competition at the 1st round for losing to China. Then using the group round, Korea was given a 2nd chance by playing with other teams. If Korea is really the 2nd best after China, Korea still can play China in the final by beating Indonesia.

    Now, Korea was not given that chance, instead, he was forced to slap it face 2nd time. I have never seen such a stupid rules in any tournaments.

    I really feel sorry for badminton fans, why we have such a no brain BWF so long.
     
  13. Wong8Egg

    Wong8Egg Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Can't agree more!

    IMO. Group A and B runner up should play group C and D winner and vice versa. That way the round runner up could only replay their lost at final, if they truly deserve it.

    The way it is now makes the group round rather meaningless. Although we are already into the semi, but I really hope BWF could do something to address this problem on the next edition. :(
     
  14. Thom_bad

    Thom_bad Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,490
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Saskatoon, Canada
    No because last time Korean voluntarily lost in group stage in order to get the draw they wanted...

    Draw should be random + a match which has been played in group stage can't be played an other time..
     
  15. ye333

    ye333 Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    US
    Part of the reason is that MAS lost to Japan in the group match. Therefore technically MAS should be replaced by Japan and it's 3 in the upper draw and 2 in the lower. Not that unbalanced.

     
  16. sepang

    sepang Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    san jose
    The random draw definitely stupid. They can have randomly draw but have to make sure the 2nd seed of the same group will not meet the 1st seed in the same group.

    For example.
    Group A: 1st seed is China, any 2nd seed from other groups will be drawn to play against China, such as m'sia, india, germany


    In that case, same team will not play with each other again. The organizer definitely does not use "Brain".
     
  17. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    2
    Occupation:
    Landlording, providing vacation homes at Disney wo
    Location:
    Vacation Home @ Disney World
    I didn't follow the results, I just got surprised by reading 4 best teams out of 5 are in the same half.

    I should not have complained MAS. I should just complain the Korea's draw.

    There are 5 teams at the top, but there are only 4 groups, that's ok, 2 teams have to fight in the same group. But Why China and Korea, the current Thomas cup holder and the current runner up of this team event. Theoretically China and Korea are the top two teams. Why put them in the same group?

    Even I have to bear with that, then how come using random selection after the group round? What's the meaning of group round for a round robin tournament.

    A round robin tournament is to give all teams opportunities to play all other teams, is NOT to give a team to play again to void the result of previous encounters.

    If Korea lost, then the runner up lost in the first round without giving any opportunity to play any other teams.

    If Korea won against China in the elemination round, and won the title finally, then its title is not justified because it lost first.

    If BWF wants random selection, Korea should be given chance to play either Japan or Indonesia in the other half. Same applies to Indonesia and India.

    Another question, was Denmark, the winner in the group, pre-arranged to play China in the top half of the draw?

    That's the thing should be randomly picked. Other wise the teams in the Denmark group would refuse to win in the group round.

    Group rivals should not be drawn in the same half, that should be the rule. Otherwise, teams don't have to play hard in the group round, because their fate will be determined by late no matter what the outcome of the group round.
     
  18. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    2
    Occupation:
    Landlording, providing vacation homes at Disney wo
    Location:
    Vacation Home @ Disney World
    Thanks, brilliant idea.

    I agree. To make it more even, if Denmark was drawn in the top half, then only 2 teams should be randomly picked to play China or Denmark:
    Malaysia or India. Not Germany. Because Germany had played Denamrk already, they should not be expected to meet until final.

    further, you are right, China, Denmakr, Japan, and Indonesia should be randomly picked to have 4 quaters in the draw. Then pick the other opposite 2 runner ups for each quaters.

    In that sense, Only Malaysia, India, Germany have chance to play China, not Korea again
     
    #18 2cents, May 12, 2010
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
  19. simonlovers

    simonlovers Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,758
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    indonesia
    no no no..
    look at Uber Cup 2010 draw !! (INA Uber Team can play like KOR Thomas Team in 2008 )
    Group A - China
    Group B - Indonesia
    Group C - Japan
    Group D - Korea

    INA better beat Australia and lost to Denmark !!
    INA Uber Team CAN reach Final :eek: :cool:
     

Share This Page