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When to decide where to place the next shot ?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Ballschubser, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser New Member

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    When I receive a shot, at what time do I decide where to place my next shot ?
    A) When the shuttle leaves the opponents racket ?
    B) When the shuttle crosses the net ?
    C) Just before playing the shot ?

    I often have the problem, that when I almost reached the shuttle, I take a quick look at the opponent, identify the gap, look back at the shuttle and ... miss it completely.

    So, I'm unsure, if this would be the right way to place a shot and that I need to pratice more, or if this is just too late and I need to learn to decide where to place it much earlier.

    When the game speeds up, do you still decide (e.g. defending vs a fast smash) or do you just react ?
     
  2. Ouchie

    Ouchie Regular Member

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    Typically your decision is decided by your ability to get into position in time and the percentage of success applied to the shot choice.

    There is also
    D) Before you play the previous shot
    E) After you play the previous shot
    F) Based on the opponents arm movement/preparation
    G) All of the above and probably more

    The real answer is G. Most returns are playing the highest percentage chance of winning a point, or a setup to win a point, or avoid losing a point.
    It is both dynamic and predictable. Ideally you restrict the options of you opponent so you don't make decisions based on their choice, you make the choices for them and therefore yourself. It could be tactically picking on their weakness such as a deep low backhand that can only be returned to the net - option D or E.

    You could, for example, play a high lift then stand in a position that exposes an area of the court expecting the opponent will try to smash to the open area. Before they smash you move to cover the court correctly or even cover more of the area you were just exposing, hopefully making it more likely to know sooner where their return will be - option A or B and some D or E.

    I like to play cross court net shots but only if I trick the opponent into committing or believing I will play a straight net shot. Same with disguised drops becoming punch clears - option C.

    Deceptive players are usually A or B unless you know them and can predict their unpredictable choices. I know somebody who makes his smash and drop look very similar - except he shouts to express effort only when he plays the drop shot - option F. :D Shhh don't tell him, it's a secret ;)

    If you lose sight of the shuttle then you need to stop taking your eyes off the shuttle until you are better at it, your return is more important than missing. One action result in a chance to win a point, the other action guarantees you will not win a point. There is lots of research you can find with a google search on peripheral vision in athletes.
     
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  3. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser New Member

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    Thx Ouchie. You are talking about tactical aspects and anticipation. I'm with you when controlling the game, playing a certain sequence of returns and anticipating a weak return to finish the rally.

    But I'm talking more about the situation, that you are not in control of the game, that the opponent is not playing the shot you anticipated.

    An example: You play the to the right backcorner, knowing that your opponent has a weak backhand. You position yourself slightly to the right of your base position, anticipating a weak backhand return, that you are able to kill. Instead he plays a cross court netdrop. At this point you would move to the left net area to receive it.

    If you would be the spectator, you would normally play a netshot/block, but the opponent is sprinting to the net anticipating a netshot, so it would be better to play a lift to the same corner as before, leaving the opponent with too much momentum to stop and go back. Simple like that.

    As player I have the trouble to move quickly, see that he is moving, decide and execute the lift. Instinctively I would move to the net, turn my head to see what the opponent is doing, turn it back to play and ...miss. Yes, if I would concentrate on hitting the shuttle, I would hit it which is better than missing.

    But in respect of learning, I would like to know, if watching the opponent by turning the head, would be the right way to evaluate the situation and therefor I just need to practise more until it works, or if turning the head is just too error prone and I should learn to percieve/feel the situation without losing sight of the shuttle ?
     
  4. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    He is right handed and it's from your point of view.
    When you're very off balance, in singles a high clear or lift to the middle is always a valid option to buy time and limit his angles.
    If you reach the shuttle early enough to pressure him with a (must be flat) lift to the same corner, that is cross court, you could put much more pressure on him with a flat straight lift or even a push.

    Your question was when to decide it. You decided to open up the court with your lift to the sideline. This gives your opponent all the court for a reply. You should only do this when you're in a stable and good position. You then see he's taking it with his backhand, that you know is not strong. This is what you were hoping for, but you didn't know it, but you knew where your shot was going. Slightly adjust your position to the side the shuttle can reach quicker (straight) is good, but don't overdo it. He plays the cross drop and from what you wrote, you can reach it in a position that you could play a (quite flat) cross lift. Also, you're going forward, the shuttle is in front of you, so you certainly can see your opponent in peripheral vision when focusing the shuttle.

    This leaves you in a great, very advantageous position! You have all four corners that you can aim at by approaching the shuttle in the same way, you even have the option to add more deception and even double move shots from this position, maybe even triple moves. Most of the time two options (that can be even more deceptive with a slight holding or a double move) are enough:
    Your opponent is rushing to the net and already close, play a flat, straight lift, if there's still some distance or he's hesitating, play a (tumbling) net shot.
    You don't need to take the focus off the shuttle. If you've been in that situation a few times, your peripheral vision will be enough to choose between a very limited number of choices that all need the same preparation. I'm this case, the situation for you is so advantageous that you can decide when reaching the shuttle, based on your opponent's movement after his shot.
     
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  5. Ouchie

    Ouchie Regular Member

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    Given you are focused on the shuttle and not the player, the shot with the highest percentage of winning or continuing the rally is the netshot, so do that. The shuttle will reach the net before the opponent. There are a number of scenarios that make it the best option, 1 of them is the opponent has to get to the shuttle at full speed then stop or slow enough to play their shot...this is them under pressure and you have an advantage. If you lift and they did not sprint to the net then you will lose the advantage. If you lift and they can stop and return the rear in time then you may or may not have an advantage.
    If you play out the same scenario a second time and they rush the net again you can predict what will happen the third time and adjust. You don't always have to see them but I fully believe you will have some perception of their movement even if you don't turn your head to look at them. Perception is not just vision, it can be memory, sound or intuition. Playing somebody who is 60+ they probably won't sprint anywhere but a 20 year old probably can if they want.

    Badminton is chess and when you give up an advantage then you risk everything. You may not have the same pieces as the opponent but how you use them matters.
     
    #5 Ouchie, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  6. Ouchie

    Ouchie Regular Member

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    Apparently, the colour of an object in you peripheral vision impacts on how your eye sees it. Our eyes see in red-green and blue-yellow channels but it is the blue-yellow channel that has existed longer in mammals and therefore it is better wired. This ultimately means it is more advantageous for you if your opponents wear blue-yellow clothing :D
    Source - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/05/010508082759.htm
     
  7. Budi

    Budi Regular Member

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    When is the time to decide to drop the next bird? I guest its anytime & the decision is not fixed even after it been decided. It can change whenever needed.

    Few times i match with this 1 man. He had a very good wrist (what can i say, he is a coach). Few times i play agains him & i can never been able to see his pattern or predict his next shot. When i read he try to do net shot, im moving to it & then with a very short swing he change to lift. But if i try holding on the ground & wait for last minute, i need to run on it as his precision on his shot is really good. So basically he keep changing his card that about to play next depend on the situation.
     
  8. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

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    Hi there,

    Most of the answers are written already here in regards with your thread question. I just want to add more from the other perspective

    - You should train your decision making process to be as rapid, and fluent as possible similarly like its just a second nature to you while you're playing. To do this you need to the train your view, mental and thought awareness to be as efficient as possible so that the analysis process that comes before the decision making takes its role also can be as rapid and fluent. Badminton is a very fast game and the birdie will reach you within seconds in many occasion. Due to the window given to you when opportunity does appears can be very short and narrow, if you thought process hesitate to decide about what will be the your next intended shot, you will loose.
    - In regards about the topic of when to decide, your ability to decide within the correct time frame and preparation before making that hit is just part of the equation. The real task is actually about whether those decision that you've just made was the most effective one or not. Here comes the part where you need to train to strategies your game play effectively so that you can create a greater chances of opening more windows of winning opportunities that could further facilitate your analysis process in order to make a more effective decision making results. Since the ability to strategies your game play effectively according to your opponents style of play is an asset that a player couldn't harness easily and quickly, train to adapt the SWOT analysis in how you play as you continuously train.

    S(your strength)
    W(your weakness)
    O(Opportunities)
    T(Threat)

    - Having an effective peripheral vision is without doubt can assist you in making a better and effective decision making result but one must understand that its just a tool which its role is just to facilitate further while you're doing that analysis process. Having a peripheral vision will only do good if you are well train to use your both eyes in making that split micro seconds multiple head and eye view movements within the given angle and distance between your opponent position and the incoming birdie. If you're not able to effectively train your head and eye view to adapt peripheral vision as part of your style of play that could be an edge for you then my advice dont use it because it will just not give you any advantage.

    SS
     
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  9. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser New Member

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    Oh, I like this tip. My first thought was, that I need to wait as long as possible to get most infomation about my opponents situation (where does he opens his court) to play the best possible shot, and maybe it is even true for good players...

    .. but your telling me, more or less, that I should make a decision as fast as possible, concentrate on playing the shot and rate my decision afterwards. Getting better I would be able to open up the time frame in which I'm able to make decisions without sacrifying the ability to play a safe shot.

    This might be obviously to most players, but you really helped me to grasp a learning approach here.
     

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