Which machine to upgrade to from Pro's Pro Challenger?

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by s_mair, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Since [MENTION=96435]DuckFeet[/MENTION] didn't manage to start this thread, I gladly step in and take over. :D

    Background:
    I bought a PP Challenger 6 months ago, upgraded it with Chudek side supports and a better gripper and have strung around 30 rackets with it up to now. From the first moment on I felt quite uncomfortable with the overall quality of the parts used. That were the reasons why I changed the side supports and the gripper. Now the clamp bases start to disintegrate (and they felt horrible and wobbly from the first day on) and the guys at PP are not really willing to replace them under warranty.

    Long story short: I'm now finally sick and tired of the constant repair and upgrading procedures and planning to buy a new machine. And I want to figure out which one would be the best one to upgrade to and to have fun with stringing for the next 10 years without quality issues!

    Main Requirements:
    - Budget is around 500 EUR
    - Dropwheight (but should be easily upgradeable with a WISE later on)
    - universal fixed clamps suitable for Badminton and Tennis
    - main support towers should be moveable
    - high quality clamps, bases, side supports and gripper
    - available in Germany/Europe, I don't want to order from overseas

    I already did some research and made a personal shortlist of three candidates (all links point to a german shop, but I guess you should see all important details from the pictures):

    1.) Gamma X-6FC PRO
    2.) Gamma Progroession II 602 FC PRO
    (either with round stock gripper or with =>this modification)
    3.) Superstringer T20

    Which of these three would you guys recommend or where do you see the advantages/disadvantages of each candidate?

    What are the pros/cons for the round Gamma gripper vs. a classic linear gripper?

    Do you guys see some other machines that would fit the bill?
     
    #1 s_mair, Oct 1, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
  2. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    ^ what he said. Although i may settle for gripper mod.
    I would add that side supports moving together. I don't Like clamping sides independently with the challenger.

    Dibs on your gripper! I'll offer what you paid for it towards your new machine.
     
  3. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Hello, hello? Anyone?

    Could someone who ones one if the named machines at least tell what you like our dislike about it? The pros/cons of the round Gamma gripper would also be very interesting.
     
  4. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    The first two are pretty much the same, to be honest, and all Gammas are built like tanks and need little maintaining.

    The third is the one that caught my eye - it has auto-locking base clamps - which are a 100+ Euro modification on their own - and the Gamma-style clamps, which are another 100+ Euro per pair. And added to all that, it's the cheapest of all three machines.
     
  5. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    I would go for the T40 instead of the 20. Best Value for money with your budget. IMO the better package compared to both Gammas. BTW Dirks Service ist erste Sahne!
     
  6. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Wow, so the Superstringer seem to be a real bargain!

    BUT: It's got curved rails!!!
    [MENTION=59291]ucantseeme[/MENTION]
    The T40s and above have fixed towers which made me focus on the T20. And I see a good chance that the Chudek supports from my Challenger also fit on the T20.
    And yes , Dirk from Tenmismam is a really nice guy with brilliant service. And the best thing: His shop is only about 70 km from where I live. So I might actually have the chance to lay my hands on all the candidates before buying. How great is that?!
     
  7. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    Nah. T40 and 50 have adjustable towers. Take a further look. They have rails for them. Only T60 has fixed towers. Wouldn't mind much about a recycling of your supports from Michal which means you dismiss a great machine just because of the usage for some spare parts? Come on. ;)
     
  8. Stein_r

    Stein_r Regular Member

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    i also came from Pro's Pro and have changed now to Gamma. The quality is by far better. Better mounting system, clamp and supports. The arms are very solid in comparision to Pro's Pro. From my observation the Superstringer T20 looks like the same as Pro's Pro with better clamps and station. But the rest is nearly the same. And paying 420,-€ is damn expensive. Better go for Gamma at the same price range. T40, T50 and T60 has "technical" the same mouting system like the top rated machine as yonex, babolat, etc. with 2 wheels to adjust the arms and the 6/12 o clock point. But i wouldn't expect a machine at that price range to work very accurate. Normally such kind of machine starts at 2000€. If i were you i would go for old machine from http://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/. You often get by about 500-800€ an old babolat machine. And babolat machine is known for its robustness, accuracy and pesistence also when they are over 10 years old. :)
     
  9. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Good eyes! Funny thing is that I specifically asked Dirk this and he answered that all machines above the T20 have fixed towers. Although the visible rails on the pictures tell a different story... Another reason why I want to see and touch the machines in the shop - cause if the T40 in reality has moveable towers than it's clearly the better machine for the money, hands down. The one-knob adjustment for the side supports would be more important than keeping my Chudek supports, that's for sure.
    [MENTION=13060]Stein_r[/MENTION]
    I am watching the eBay Kleinanzeigen for quite some time and it seems to be very rare that a decent machine is for sale. Mostly you only find very antique machines for which I would not spend much money.
    Regarding the Gamma machines - do you use the round gripper or a linear one?
     
  10. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Actually, I will change my mind - I didn't see the T40 until now.

    Everything I would want in a machine - moveable towers, locking base clamps, single-knob side-supports (these are absolutely worth the extra over the T20), Gamma-style hybrid clamps. And it's a nice colour. For that money, I could easily live with the curved rails.

    IMHO, that's by far the best upgrade platform - with a WISE on it, it would be the rival of any 2000+ Euro machine.
     
    #10 Mark A, Oct 4, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  11. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    [MENTION=13060]Stein_r[/MENTION] If I'm not wrong the Super Stringers are coming from AEF. AEF is far superior compared to PP and Eagnas. Alot people here have good to great experiences with products from AEF.

    For sure, brands like Gamma, Babolat and Toyo Zouki offer a better quality, but OP is stringing around 60 rackets per year. Which means 1-2 rackets per week and for this task you can't go wrong with this machine. It has everything what you wish for a great value of money. I wouldn't think twice.
     
  12. isibongo

    isibongo Regular Member

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    T40 has no semi automatic locking base clamps. Only T20 and T50 have these.

    T10 six-knob adjustment, no automatic base clamps
    T20 six-knob adjustment, automatic base clamps
    T40 one-knob adjustment, no automatic base clamps
    T50 one-knob adjustment, automatic base clamps
     
  13. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Yes, you are right - T50 is the one with the semi-automatic bases. But the price difference to the T40 is almost nothing, so that makes the T50 then the most interesting amongst the Superstringers. Now I just need to prove that the information from Dirk regarding the fixed main towers was wrong. Getting a one-knob adjustment for this price would be sooo tempting...

    The Superstringers are indeed made by AEF and play in a whole different league than PP when it comes to overall quality.
     
  14. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Ah - I thought the T40 had the auto-bases. If not, the T50 is definitely the one.

    I can tell you now that fixed towers are not as good for badminton as are moveable towers; you will end up touching the racket at the very corners, which is far more dangerous. I would not trust a setup like this:

    [video=youtube;6SCxCF5JPTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SCxCF5JPTI[/video]

    T50 has moveable towers, so if it's in budget, I would go for that one.
     
  15. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    I definitely want to have the flexibility of moveable towers for adjusting the positions of side supports. Based on the pictures alone, the T50 should have moveable ones, so I basically only need to verify if that's still true in the latest version which will arrive by mid of November. And if in a worst case the towers are fixed, I will still take a close look at the T20 vs. the two Gamma's.

    If the T50 has moveable towers and in reality is built as described, I guess that will be my first choice. Right in the budget, ticks every box I had (plus the one-knob side support adjustment on top) and easily upgradeable with a WISE just in case.

    So thanks to all for helping me clearing up my mind! I'll now wait patiently until the new batch of the Superstringers arrive in November and I will then be showing off with my shiny new machine afterwards!
     
  16. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Duuhh... Poop! The towers of the T50 are not moveable. There are rails in the baseplate but towers are fixed. They are thinking about adding this feature later on but this will take at least 1.5 years until this version will be available according to Mr. Tennisman himself. But if I can test the machines in his shop I will have a close look where the side supports end up on a badminton racket. If the arms aren't that long maybe they sit somewhere close to the optimal points. Small chance though.

    So I guess this means back to the three original candidates then...
     
  17. Stein_r

    Stein_r Regular Member

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    Look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9OipqndPM4. He use the same machine as T50 for stringing Badminton. Looks like the side supports are at the optimal points. You should maybe ask Mr. Tennisman for the extension version of the head and throat fixing point (Kopf- und Herzfixierung). Besaitungsmaschine - SUPERSTRINGER E1 has this extension optionally.
     
  18. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Very good find, thanks! The position of the side support acutally looks really good. I just feel a bit uncomfortable that the racket is floating in mid air like this.
    [MENTION=11783]Mark A[/MENTION] and [MENTION=59291]ucantseeme[/MENTION] - What do you think of this?
     
  19. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    The T50 is based on an Eagnas pattern, and there are generic parts available to turn the T50 into a better badminton machine. Basically, you're after the long 12/6 supports in this picture

    cmtbs.jpg

    I would definitely ask your contact about them, because IMHO a machine with fixed towers should come with them. Heck, the Yonex ES5Protech had moveable towers and long 12/6.
     
  20. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    I guess the long 12/6 supports should not be the problem. There will be a way to get hold of them somehow.

    Would you in gerenal be happy with the free-floating mounting position of the racket and positioning of the side supports as seen in your picture or the linked video above?
     

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