which side to move to after a cross court lift

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by ralphz, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    In doubles,

    I'm not sure when this scenario occurs.

    But

    If a player at the front does a cross court lift, then should they move to

    A) The side of the court where their partner isn't

    or

    B) The side of the court they are on, even if their partner is at the back on that side. And should they then expect their partner to move to the other side?
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    In regular doubles, always backup straight on the side of the court you are at. If you are at the middle, pick a side and your partner should fill the other side

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
     
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  3. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    would a scenario be they lift to a back corner, partner behind does a drop opponents do a net person at front does cross court lift (is that a realistic scenario?)

    then when the front player moves back to the same side, the other player will chasse to the other side?
     
  4. Hbmao

    Hbmao Regular Member

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    the backcourt player should move to the other side earlier, when the cross lift happens.
     
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  5. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    it's a lift. there should be tons of time to move anywhere.
     
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  6. Budi

    Budi Regular Member

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    Basically let the front player choose as their eye are on the front facing the opponent. Asking the to look back 1st would delay them. The one on the back adjust himself to cover the empty area.

    Normally what i do is to move to a shortest location to my last front shot. Why? If let say im lift a drop from front left area. if i move to the mid right area, when the opponent drop back to the left, its will be far for both me & my partner to catch. So the choice is on the left mid which is shorter.
     
  7. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    For cross lift, move back straight. For straight lift, generally prefer to move back crosscourt if possible, but it's often not possible, depending where you lifted from.

    Reasoning:

    1) your partner can see your movement so fills in any gap accordingly

    2) it's easier to defend moving forwards as you are balanced and can see your opponents the whole time, therefore your rearcourt partner should take the most dangerous (straight) smash if possible

    3) conversely, taking the crosscourt smash gives you more time and is a less often played smash due to the counter-attacking opportunity you have.

    4) if the drop shot comes straight, your rear court partner has easier balance/momentum to move forward to take it, whereas it's really difficult to reverse your momentum and move forwards again as a front player to take the straight drop. For cross drop you have plenty time.

    However, moving crosscourt to the smash on a straight lift is often really hard, especially if lifted from near the tramlines, in which case you must take the straight because it's too far to take the crosscourt smash defence.

    Note that in all cases, the positioning is preferable. The number one priority is to get into a balanced defensive sides position. It is better to be in the right position in balance on a straight smash defence, than to be out of balance or slightly short of the correct position by trying to move to crosscourt defence when there isn't enough time.
     
    #7 DarkHiatus, Oct 13, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  8. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    I've put some of my own words in between {...} just to make it a bit clearer so I don't have to refer back to something earlier that you wrote to see who you mean by 'you'

    okay.. I have definitely heard about moving cross court to the cross court lift.. so back within one's own box... I hadn't heard re moving cross court for a straight lift(where possible), that's interesting.

    doesn't this apply either way.

    so whichever way the front guy were to move, the back guy would move accordingly.

    Where you say "it's easier to defend moving forwards".

    If defending you are supposed to be stopped. Not moving forwards or backwards.

    If having lifted it, there isn't much time, then there seem to be two choices, and would apply to almost any shot in badminton.. Are you suggesting to not stop before your opponent hit it? I've learnt to stop before the opponent hits it. (even if there isn't much time and it isn't an ideal position that you are in).

    If you hit the shuttle then you return to 'base' or as close to 'base' as possible, before your opponent hits it. But by the time your opponent is about to hit it, you should be stopped (or maybe doing some kind of split step and, at least assuming it's a neutral split step), you are not moving backwards or forwards or sideways. And for any split step, or even dare I say without one(not that I am suggesting not doing one), but you should not have momentum from the previous shot! That momentum should be gone.

    If you are not in position, and your opponent is about to hit it, then what I learnt is you have to stop where you are, otherwise your opponent can just hit it the other direction to where you are going.

    So one shouldn't be defending while moving forwards or backwards.. One should defend while stationary.

    If one doesn't have much time then one should still be stationary! Albeit not in an ideal position.

    I haven't been in many situations where the person that lifted it moved crosscourt so I haven't really asked many people about it.. so maybe in that kind of situation somebody may be moving while opponent is hitting it.. I guess sometimes if a lift is poor then a person that lifted it may be moving backwards when defending .. but it does conflict with the idea I once learnt about stopping before the opponent hits it, even if one's position isn't good.

    Well, isn't it the case that whichever way the front player moves, a person responding to a cross court smash has more time than a person responding to a straight smash? (if both players are in position, or if both players have the same distance to move to be in position).

    But if the player responding to the cross court smash has further to move than the one responding to the straight smash, then it's a question mark who has more time to respond. And I agree that if the front player is near the side tramline then certainly they shouldn't be moving cross court.

    I'd have thought that if the rear court player still has momentum going forward then he has gone wrong and is in danger of an attacking clear.
     
  9. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Ideally, both players will be stopped with perfect momentum, able to do a perfectly balanced split step.As you pointed out, things are not always so ideal - just like lifting. Often players will have a little bit of residual momentum.

    If you were able to stop perfectly every time before the shuttle is struck, then it wouldn't matter what player goes where. The importance of the consideration is the path towards the defence formation.

    Moving to crosscourt defence after a straight lift is particularly common on mixed doubles, as it's often advantageous to keep the female player taking the cross smash. Also, that's where you'll more often see males taking the straight smash defence on a straight lift for the same reason.

    It might make a rear player vulnerable to an attack clear, but after high intermediate level, there is no question of being able to retrieve it, it merely means the rear player is unlikely to be able to smash it - but a player does not need to smash to play an effective attacking shot, so it is risky for the attacking pair to play an attacking clear in general.
     
  10. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Usually I'd just refer to international players for this.

    For example:



    It seems to me the lifter just move back straight whether it's a straight or cross lift.
     

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