Who can say that he will win if he wants to

Discussion in 'German Open / All England / Swiss Open 2007' started by 2cents, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. TonyWdq

    TonyWdq Regular Member

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    Why do you want a sports jock to talk so formal? Do you sit down with an english prof each night about what to say in public the next day?

    his words "he can beat anyone when he wants to" came from his own personality, not some decade-long logical thesis he has developed about himself for public to analyze. Of course there are flaws, so relax about it...
     
  2. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

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    If he lost to Chen Jin, but has not beat Chen Jin even once, how can he claim he will win if he wants to?

    What one person can promise is himself performance, he cannot pick whom he fight for next round. If he claims he will win if he wants to, then he has to be prepared for all opponents.

    I already allow he to brag to beat anyone never met, I also allow him to brag to beat anyone even had losing head-to-head records, but I don't believe his brag to win anyone whom he lost but never won over.

    This is very natural logic. If you think this is the most absurd, then what's your definition for his "he will win if he wants to"?

    When you blame something, you got to have your own logic reasoning :rolleyes:
     
  3. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

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    What you said might be true. But now, let us totally forget Taufik, just let us explore who is really the guy who can brag that he will win if he wants to.

    I think this is a very interesting topic. Because this is the new way to view the potentials of the players. If he has beaten everyone he met (even though the head-to-head is not in his favour), he is also a great player to be known.
     
  4. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

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    I think this topic is so natural, how come still people did not understand.

    Even when I play with my friends. If I have lost to someone, and have never won over him, I will not dare to claim that I will win if I want to.

    Once I beat him once, even though I still had 1-10 losing head-to-head against him, I can brag i will win if i want to.

    When I have never won this guy but lost continuously, I would never brag I will win if I want to. This is not just shameless, it is against the basic facts.
     
    #24 2cents, Mar 5, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2007
  5. freelast

    freelast Regular Member

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    Lindan is definitely the one who will win if he wants to :)

    He beats everyone:
    Lindan vs Lee CW: 5:2
    Lindan vs Chen Jin: 5:0
    Lindan vs Taufik: 9:4

    Chen Hong, Bao CL, Lee CW, and Peter Gade are also the ones who can brag that he will win if he wants to by your definition.

    Chen Jin and Chen Yu are not because they have yet beaten Lindan. But I think Chen Yu has beaten Lindan in China national games.

    Taufik is not because he lost to Chen Jin and not won yet as you said.
     
  6. Glacyus

    Glacyus Regular Member

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    With so many people disagreeing, have you considered the possibility of your logic not being "natural," yet flawed?

    Taufik can argue that he has not beat Chen Jin because the latter never stood in his way in a tournament he promised to win. With this in mind, TH can still claim that based on his previous major results, he can get up for any one given tournament and win it. Simple as that.

    I am not saying he is correct in his statement, just that it's not logically flawed. His results against CJ cannot be used to prove his statement true or false as he can simply say he didn't have his heart set on X match, unless previously stated to the contrary by him.
     
  7. ye333

    ye333 Regular Member

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    According to your logic, anyone who wants to claim that only need to win the first encounter against every new opponent, then no matter how many games he lost after that, he can still say "I can win if I want to".

    Furthermore, what Taufik means by "win" is to win big titles, not individual matches. Although I do not agree with the absurd "Taufik can win if he wants to" theory, he is indeed the one who is closest.

    Finally I think your criterion does not take into account anything about the "want to" part. LD cannot claim that because he obviously "wanted" to win OG (he even planned how to celebrate after winning), he didn't. Then he obviously "wanted" to win 05WC, he didn't either. Finally he obviously "wanted" to win AG (he said he lost to LHI because he had been thinking about the MS even too much), he didn't.

    So the "can win if want to" claim is really not about how many opponents you can beat, that's more about consistency. It is more about what is the highest level you can reach, if you are fully prepared and motivated. That is very very different from consistency.

     
  8. freelast

    freelast Regular Member

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    Kenneth Jonassen cannot brag that because he lost to Lindan 0:6

    Hafiz cannot brag that because he also lost to Lindan 0:7
     
  9. freelast

    freelast Regular Member

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    Ok, I have checked all the top players. Only the following 5 guys can brag to win if wants to:

    Lindan, Chen Hong, Bao CL, Lee CW, and Peter Gade.

    Lindan has an amazing head-to-head records against everyone. He never lost to Chen Jin, Chen Yu, Kenneth Jonassen, and Hafiz. Although Taufik had won against Lindan, but lost to Chen Jin without any win.
     
  10. Simp84

    Simp84 Regular Member

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    Your topic is "who can say that he will win if he wants to.." and furthermore your started your topic with this statement "Taufik was the first one who claimed that he will win if he wants to. But it is NOT true since he has lost to Chen Jin and never won against him." So it is right of me to argue the way I did since I think he can back up his statement whenever needed...

    Let me challenge your 2nd criterior, that is an unfair criterior.. first of all you totally ignored the fact that some player participate less compared to others.. secondly, the draw does not always allow the two players to meet together.. because lets face the fact.. CJ is still a new player and still improving.. so we might see more of TH vs CJ in future.. I dont know

    But I really think it doesn't matter who beats who, in the end whats more important is the player themself proving their achievements... TH won OG like he always dream of.. LD becoming world #1 and his dream title the WC... Hafiz won AE.. so and so...
    And I dont think people brag about beating anyone they want...
     
  11. KillerT

    KillerT Regular Member

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    You will find Taufik has never admitted that or said anything of the sort. The media and Taufik's fans have said this in defense or as an excuse for his erratic performances.
     
  12. tjl_vanguard

    tjl_vanguard Regular Member

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    kekeke... "I" will be the next AE champ.... LD will fall to on his knees upon our our match in finals hahah!! *crap!! as if i can win dem hahaha*
     
  13. Joyous

    Joyous Regular Member

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    Frankly, any player can say the infamous statement "If I want to win, I can" & whether that comes to past or not will be left to be seen. With the exception of TH, I haven't read of any other players making such a statements altho' many do say that they would like or hope to win.

    Arggh....what is it that TH is not capable of uttering....and with the most recent incident, the end result is bye-bye to AE 2007....hmmm....wisdom...wisdom....
     
  14. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    lin dan is the winningest MS in modern time
    korean Hwan Park beat lin dan twice, 2:0
    i would say Hwan Park can boast himself to say he can beat them all:p
     
  15. freelast

    freelast Regular Member

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    I checked that already. Lindan beat Park Sung Hwan also in the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 2006. So their head to head is at least 2:1 not 2:0. I remember that Lindan also beat Park before year 2004 but the internationalbadminton.org web site doesn't have complete records.

    Even just using the imcomplete internationalbadminton.org records, Lindan also has beaten Park in wc 2006, so Lindan is one of the guys who have beat everyone they met.

    Thanks for your checking :D
     
  16. tjl_vanguard

    tjl_vanguard Regular Member

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    In conclusion,
    Lin Dan has beaten all the players... In the exception of those he has yet to play against.... :)
     
  17. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    thanks, i stand corrected:(
     
  18. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    Nobody has the authority to say he will win if he wants to, unless he has a near 100% record (losses only because of withdrawal or orders).

    Who wants to lose?
     
  19. alfa2

    alfa2 Regular Member

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    im pretty sure about that too. Nobody ever came close to him when he was in his prime.
     
  20. alfa2

    alfa2 Regular Member

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    2cents, thats abit harsh...... But i like it very much.:D:D:D:D
     

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