Withdrawal list of WC 2009

rules can be changed,
my question is: shouldn't the tournament have a full draw and thus the rules changed to encourage a full draw. Doesn't a full draw make a more interesting tournament for the spectators? Doesn't a full draw improve more players by giving them a top experience?
 
Hmm..my 3 sens..

dex said:
Badwoman: Unfortunately, WC doesn't work like other Super Series! A player has to be qualify to enter to play at the WC! Read the regulations!
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..that's right. BWF has already put in rules & regulations in regards to who & how many can participate.
badwoman said:
The rules do say that there doesn't have to be a complete 64 draw,
however, in phase 2 (by May 18) BWF can invite any further players/pairs due to players/pairs originally eligible not entering, and again in phase 3 (by June 1) due to players/pairs not entering players/pairs can be invited,

so why not fill the drawers by June 1, then there will only be withdrawals after the draw has been made, and no gaps due to byes
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..this has been brought up before. And an explanation has been mentioned. Please see this link below, post #49:
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1215884#post1215884

The thing is, BWF has offered a chance to many players, even all the way to rank 150 and past rank 150. If none of them qualified or accepted the offer, what should BWF do? If BWF were to expand the opportunity to the world's top 200, then how abt to the world's top 250? The latter would say & ask, "hey, how come they don't invite me or give me a chance?". Where does BWF draw the line of how many players/pairs are eligible?
And then, even if BWF did set the last eligibility date on June 1, what is the possibility of them filling out the whole draw?
badwoman said:
rules can be changed,
my question is: shouldn't the tournament have a full draw and thus the rules changed to encourage a full draw. Doesn't a full draw make a more interesting tournament for the spectators? Doesn't a full draw improve more players by giving them a top experience?
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- Shouldn't the tournament have a full draw? Ideally, yes. But realistically, it's not as easy as it sounds.
- Doesn't a full draw make a more interesting tournament for the spectators? Ideally, yes. But reality, it's never been achieved before.
- Doesn't a full draw improve more players by giving them a top experience? Depends & this is open to discussion. We can also point to the Olympics. A lot of unknown players, a few of them probably don't belong in the Olympics simply if one gauges by their skills, have been given chances. But have they improved even if they're exposed to "a top experience"? The only way a player improves is by going out, getting him/herself exposed to and competing in more international tourneys (SS, GP, GP Gold, International Challenges, T&UC, SC etc.). Not so much by competing in a WC event or an Olympics event.
 
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My 1.5 cents...

I think, badwoman is right that the current system is far from perfectness, and the question is not about the players below top 150. It affects the good players within top 50 as well. The weakest point in the current system, in my opinion, is the rule about 3 phases of invitation process. In many cases it is well known that some players (mainly low-ranked) won't be sent, but BWF needs to ask the National Federations 3 times in turn, and each time they ask only about small number of players (a few vacancies opened). So, in many cases they don't have time to reach the "150" border and start inviting players according to 3.2.6 regulation, allowing up to 4 entries from a country, even ranked below 8 and below 24.

How it can be overcome? For example, each National Federation send to BWF a list of players/pairs they want to send to WC. The lists can be (and should be) with "margins", so if anybody withdrew due to injury, or whatever, they immediately know the replacement. In this case the "up to date" list of qualified players/pairs can be easily maintained and published on the BWF website. The draw should be maid not too early, I think 3 weeks before the start is enough (for SS it's 2 weeks, right?). In this way we would have almost full draw, and more competitive, with more good players included.

More detailed considerations can be as follows:

- As soon as any "qualified" player withdrew, the corresponding National Federation must inform BWF about that, in order to update the list.
- After starting the "qualification period" (in our case - April 30) the National Federations can only exclude players/pairs from their "want lists", or make a replacement by the lower ranked players. The idea is that if anybody is already qualified, he/she cannot be excluded due to the other National Federation's actions.
- Sometimes National Federations want their lower ranked players to participate instead of higher ranked, but it's not known apriory whether they would qualify or not. The current "3 phase invitation" system partially solves the problem. In a new proposed system it can be done in a different way. For example, the Federations initially send to BWF their "want lists" with the preferable order of players/pairs to qualify. Then the "preferable order" is used if it provides the same number of entries for the given Federation as the standard one, otherwise the last one (higher ranked players first) is used. In general, the algorithm is not so simple, taking into considerations many Federations and how their "preferable orders" can affect each other, but the solution exists. I simply don't want going too deep into technical details now.
 
Just my 1.75 sens..

Dmitry said:
...The weakest point in the current system, in my opinion, is the rule about 3 phases of invitation process. In many cases it is well known that some players (mainly low-ranked) won't be sent, but BWF needs to ask the National Federations 3 times in turn, and each time they ask only about small number of players (a few vacancies opened). So, in many cases they don't have time to reach the "150" border and start inviting players according to 3.2.6 regulation, allowing up to 4 entries from a country, even ranked below 8 and below 24.

How it can be overcome? For example, each National Federation send to BWF a list of players/pairs they want to send to WC. The lists can be (and should be) with "margins", so if anybody withdrew due to injury, or whatever, they immediately know the replacement. In this case the "up to date" list of qualified players/pairs can be easily maintained and published on the BWF website. The draw should be maid not too early, I think 3 weeks before the start is enough (for SS it's 2 weeks, right?). In this way we would have almost full draw, and more competitive, with more good players included.

More detailed considerations can be as follows:

...
- Sometimes National Federations want their lower ranked players to participate instead of higher ranked, but it's not known apriory whether they would qualify or not. The current "3 phase invitation" system partially solves the problem. In a new proposed system it can be done in a different way. For example, the Federations initially send to BWF their "want lists" with the preferable order of players/pairs to qualify. Then the "preferable order" is used if it provides the same number of entries for the given Federation as the standard one, otherwise the last one (higher ranked players first) is used. In general, the algorithm is not so simple, taking into considerations many Federations and how their "preferable orders" can affect each other, but the solution exists. I simply don't want going too deep into technical details now.
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..personally, i'm not surprised if BWF had brought up or at least thought about the idea(s) above.

- If 3 phases are not enough, how many phases are necessary to satisfy all the parties involved?? 4x? 5x?? 6x?? 7x??..:confused:

- The problem with withdrawal to injury is that we just don’t know how soon or late will the withdrawal occur. How abt if the injury occurs on the last week prior to the start of the event, will they re-scramble and re-adjust or even do another draw??
Btw, even in regular SS or GP or GP Gold tourneys, with the draws being made at least 2 weeks before, there are still byes.

- If i understand what badwoman was trying to point out, this whole discussion basically deals with how to fill as many players/pairs in the draws without having any byes, if minimal at best. If that’s the case, then perhaps BWF could simply increase the no. of qualified players, per ranking group, by 1 additional number, rather than the current numbers. And keep the current "3 phases".
Say: National Federation with players ranked 1-25 can have up to 5 players/pairs. Then from rank 25-150, 4 players/pairs. Then from rank 150 and lower, 3 pairs. Or increase the Continental representation to a minimum of 2 players/pairs instead of 1...and so on and so on.
Of course, this also hinges on the qualified players/pairs accepting the invitation, as clearly, there are players/pairs who refused the invitation even for this yr's WC.
However, a counter-argument can be made against this option/system as it will only allow players/pairs from “strong” baddy countries to fill up more slots.
 
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withdrawals from Holland

After all the discussions about the rules of eligability and how to get a full draw, back to the topic off this thread ;)

Due to ankle injury both Rachel van Cutsen and Jorrit de Ruijter have withdrawn from this year's WC. So the doubles pairings of Rachel van Cutsen/Paulien van Dooremalen, Jorrit de Ruijter/Ilse Vaessen and Jorrit de Ruijter/Jurgen Wouters are out of the draw. Even more byes in the first round :D
 
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suetyan said:
OMG, it is the biggest bad news so far :( Does this mean that Kido has not fully recovered from his injury? What is the article talking about? I can't read Bahasa :(
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BWF Media & Communications Manager Selvaamresh Supramaniam has confirmed it after received letter from PBSI about the Olympic Champion absence. But there was no official confirmation from PBSI so far whether Kido/Setiawan will participate or not.
 
jasonmarc said:
Thats a good news for CY/FHF....Suetyan.....! :D:D

What happened to MK/HS........still nursing injuries....? Less exciting if without MK/HS ...............hope they change their minds...! ;)
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yaya, agree with you that MD will be less exciting if without MK/HS :(
 
Somewhat of a surprise..

suetyan said:
OMG, it is the biggest bad news so far :( Does this mean that Kido has not fully recovered from his injury? What is the article talking about? I can't read Bahasa :(
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..i would call it the biggest unfortunate (for the INA and their supporters) and maybe a fortunate (for the non-INA pairs and their supporters) news, so far..
Haiyaaaah, you're a M'sian but can't read Bahasa ar??..:p
CLELY said:
BWF Media & Communications Manager Selvaamresh Supramaniam has confirmed it after received letter from PBSI about the Olympic Champion absence. But there was no official confirmation from PBSI so far whether Kido/Setiawan will participate or not.
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..that's basically what the article is all about.
Just to add a few more:
1. News about their possible absence/withdrawal has circulated the last couple of weekends. But PBSI hasn't publicly announced/given any official explanation for their withdrawal.
2. There will be no replacement pair, in the draw, for their WO.
3. INA will rely on their other 2 MD pairs, Bona S. & M. Ahsan and Rian S. & Yonatan S.
4. The rest of the INA players are still on schedule to participate. Good to know Sony and Maria will participate despite recent news on the status of their readiness.
 
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ctjcad said:
..i would call it the biggest unfortunate (for the INA and their supporters) and maybe a fortunate (for the non-INA pairs and their supporters) news, so far..
Haiyaaaah, you're a M'sian but can't read Bahasa ar??..:p
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you have to know bahasa Indonesia is slighly different from bahasa Malaysia :D Moreover, I didn't read, speak and write bahasa Malaysia since 4 years ago. :o So I have some problem in reading the article :D
 
suetyan said:
you have to know bahasa Indonesia is slighly different from bahasa Malaysia :D Moreover, I didn't read, speak and write bahasa Malaysia since 4 years ago. :o So I have some problem in reading the article :D
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Thats make a very pro chn team's Malaysian! .............:D:D

Suetyan...as a Malaysian, please learn back all the Bahasa Malaysia that u have left behine............its for ur own good. ;)
 
jasonmarc said:
Thats make a very pro chn team's Malaysian! .............:D:D

Suetyan...as a Malaysian, please learn back all the Bahasa Malaysia that u have left behine............its for ur own good. ;)
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because all my subjects are in English now, I not really have a chance to use BM :o
 
ctjcad said:
..that's basically what the article is all about.
Just to add a few more:
1. News about their possible absence/withdrawal has circulated the last couple of weekends. But PBSI hasn't publicly announced/given any official explanation for their withdrawal.
2. There will be no replacement pair, in the draw, for their WO.
3. INA will rely on their other 2 MD pairs, Bona S. & M. Ahsan and Rian S. & Yonatan S.
4. The rest of the INA players are still on schedule to participate. Good to know Sony and Maria will participate despite recent news on the status of their readiness.
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Thx Chris for your help to translate the other paragraphs of that article...And abedeng has posted the complete version with translation in News/Articles on WC 2009 thread.

Really unfortunate for INA bdm fans, slim chance to win MD title without Kido/Setiawan participation.
 
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