XXXII Tokyo OG 2020 : DAY-8 (31st July 2021) MD Final, WD & WS Semifinal, MS Quarterfinal

Discussion in '2021 Tournaments' started by CLELY, Jul 30, 2021.

  1. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    I wonder how much CL's experience against LD and LCW helped him today. No one was able to play at LD's and LCW's level between 2008 and 2016. But CL reached their level between 2012 and 2016. Then in 2012 to 2016, it was LD + LCW + CL at their own elite level, and a big gap between them and the rest of the field. It would be interesting if we could throw today's CL against the 2012 to 2016 LD and LCW.

    I suspect Momota's run in 2019 when he was practically undefeatable was a similar level to LD and LCW in their prime.

    Anyways, CL is 32 years old and is on the wrong side of 30 years of age. I think he can still win an Olympic gold at 32, but it will be interesting to see how his fitness and stamina hold up for his remaining match(es).
     
  2. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    Because an "in form" Momota would be way more consistent, anticipate the shuttle better, etc. You forget that Momota was pretty bad at All England this year. Momota had won All England in 2019, and he had won 2 World Championships before this year's All England. Do you think it was nerves that caused Momota to play so bad at All England this year? Why would Momota get "nerves" at All England when he has won it before, and he had also won 2 WC as well before this year's All England. You don't get nerves when you have already won AE once, plus you have won 2 WC as well.

    No, it was his form at AE this year. He wasn't in his 2019 form. That's why he lost at All England this year. It wasn't his nerves at All England, it was his form. Sorry, your argument about Momota doesn't hold up because All England showed that Momota was not at his peak form and it wasn't his nerves at All England that caused him to lose.
     
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  3. badliker

    badliker Regular Member

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    I'm not saying that Momota is near his 2019 form. But if you watched the match he lost against Heo, it's very obviosly he was having a hard time mentally.

    Momota was outplayed at the AE, LZJ was simply too good. He was also outplayed at the OG by Heo, but you can tell by his decisions during the match, that he was nervous.

    What I'm trying to say is that it shouldn't take away the accomplishments the other players have made, just because Momota is not in his best form.
    If that's not what you meant by your first comment, then I'm sorry :p
     
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  4. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    Finally someone talking sense about this Momota situation. I wish more people could think like you.

    @nokh88

    Yesss! And you know what I absolutely loved about CL in this Olympics. First against LZJ he kept his calm no matter what. He was collected and cool.

    And against CTC, CTC was dominating him on net and this caused CTC to control the rallies and score points. But CL went on and challenged him head on and won and neutralised this advantage. He took action to correct the situation.


    I didn't see others display this kind of thing in this tournament. Irrespective of form and mental, I am talking specifically with the means that he had, by the time Momota started to challenge Heo Kwang-Yee on net it was too late. As opposed, CL took action within a few points.

    SYQ failed to go on the attack more ferociously against VA. He kept his strategy to run with VA the whole match. You can't run with VA now. He's got this covered a long time ago!

    So yes if CL keep his cool and willing to take the necessary actions which would effective against VA then I see him having a chance.

    He also looks fit!
     
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  5. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    I think LZJ at AE this year would lose to the 2019 Momota when Momota went on something like a 6 month streak where nobody could really touch him. Momota was that dominant in that period in 2019, I think he would have stood a chance at taking on the 2012-2016 versions of LD and LCW. And no, I don't think LZJ at AE this year could take on the 2012-2016 versions of LD and LCW (if LD or LCW were focused on winning - LD had lapses between 2012 and 2016 where he didn't care much about specific tournaments).
     
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  6. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    L
    Clearly you haven't watched enough matches of Momota.

    Yes he choked against Heo but I already predicted that he wouldn't go further based on his match against T. Lam even though he win comfortably.

    I analyse the guy a lot some might even say i'm obssessed by him. When I was still playing badminton pre-covid, I watched his matches on and on and on and on. Just to be able to copy him.

    With just one look I knew he wasn't on form. I don't care what he said about his form. He is just acting politically. He wasn't on form. I already said his legs did not have any spring. His shots did not have the quality from the match against T. Lam.

    He showed no difference whatsoever since AE.

    Kudos to Heo for beating Momota but Momota wasn't on form. Even an off-form Momota isn't that easy to beat else T. Lam would have done it.

    But that Kudos to Heo doesn't extend too long since he lost pretty badly against our new favourite Kevin Cordòn!


    P.S.

    Despite the countless hours of footage and obssession and money spend on equipment to copy Momota - I ended up looking like Luka Wraber against Axelsen on court. Heart breaking but whatever.
     
  7. lodoss

    lodoss Regular Member

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    haha. same here. I'm a fan of Setiawan. Only in Matrix, one can become a master after catching a video clip.
     
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  8. badliker

    badliker Regular Member

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    I haven't even said he was in form? He clearly isn't.

    All I'm trying to say is that you can only beat the players that shows up. That Momota was on top of the world 2 years ago, doesn't really matter now. He's not the best anymore.

    End of story, we all agree anyway :D
     
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  9. lodoss

    lodoss Regular Member

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    Momota's quality is there. We just have to see if he can get back to his previous form.
    As the saying goes, form is temporary, class is permanent.
     
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  10. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    But we need tourneys for that! I don't understand why badminton only is cancelling tourneys in such a fashion.

    140,000 people attended the British Grand Prix and only a handful of them were wearing mask.

    Why can't we do a huis clos bado tourney?
     
  11. badliker

    badliker Regular Member

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    Is Chen Long going for the gold? Or is he trying to collect all the infinity stones (gold, silver and bronze)?
     
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  12. Swaraj Lakshman

    Swaraj Lakshman Regular Member

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    This was hilarious , infinity stones

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
     
  13. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    CYF not smashing in the first 10 points. She finally smashed to get the 11th point. Seems like she wants to play a defensive and slow paced strategy.
     
  14. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    Ok, HBJ is trying as hard as she can. But CYF seems to be taking a leisurely walk in the park, lol.
     
  15. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    Idk if this was mentioned here before. I haven't paid attention to CYF style a lot before because i'm usually focusing more on the other player.

    But is it me or CYF is 90% a female version of Lin Dan?

    We normally say Lin Dan walks on the court and this is what is happening here.

    I'm seeing Lin Dan on court today.
     
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  16. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    Her strength is her footwork and balance. She has amazingly good footwork and balance among the WS players. That's how she beat TTY at the AE in 2019.
     
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  17. Sundis

    Sundis Regular Member

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    CYF moves like LCW when he was young
     
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  18. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    That I knew. But today i'm seeing Lin Dan. Am I tripping?
     
  19. HicHic

    HicHic Regular Member

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    Replying to no one in particular, just want to clear up some assumptions and misunderstandings.

    There's going to be some degree of luck in every OG for different players, depending on the brackets and who happens to be in form or out of form that tournament. If we start discussing who did or didn't deserve their medal or how far they got in this OG, it will be an endless and pointless discussion because you can say that about any player. There are infinite what if scenarios.

    As for being in form or not, cracking under pressure...we don't really know which was the case for KM. Players can appear to be out of form physically, having stiff movements and making unforced errors, but these effects can be the result of nerves, just as much as insufficient preparation. We also can't assume players form do not change between AE2021 and OG. If that were the case, LZJ should've finished CL with ease if he played with the consistency he had in AE2021. A player's form can change within the span of several months. With so few tournaments this year, we can't really see the progression from AE2021 til OG. Even if we can, there will be players that can step up an extra level in OG, just as how some players will drop several levels. LD and TH were some of the players in the past that could step up their game an extra gear when it came to the big tournaments. Some argue this ability is gifted, some argue it is something that can be trained. Whatever the case, just because your favorite player didn't have this ability in this OG, it doesn't discount this entire OG or undermine the achievements of their rivals.

    KM has been dominant in almost all the tournaments he's been in for the past few years. The only match I recall where a player took him down convincingly was SYQ in Sudirman cup when KM was playing a high pressure match that decided whether team China or Japan would win. He performed poorly in that match. Similarly, he performed poorly in this OG where there was immense team/country pressure. In both of these instances, he was not only fighting for himself, but also for his team and nation. For certain types of players, this can add much more complexity and pressure to their mental state.

    With how consistently dominant KM has performed, it is quite coincidental to perform subpar in these unique tournaments where you carry the burden of your team and country on your back. It is entirely possible that he happened to have insufficient training or injuries in these 2 tournaments too, but it is not conclusive either way.

    At the end of the day, the results are what they are and no player's achievement should be undermined, just because certain players are nervous, out of form, or failed to take the necessary precautions, training and sacrifices leading up to the OG to ensure that they will perform well. This is something I believe VA does very well. As soon as he got tested positive, he immediately prioritized his recovery.

    If a player is determined to win the OG, they will take all the necessary precautions to not contract covid, train appropriately, diet accordingly, and so forth. All of these take a lot of sacrifices, and each player is willing to sacrifice a different amount, depending on how badly they want to win it. At the end of the day, these sacrifices play a significant role in determining one's form. I remember when LD was in his prime, he often sacrificed opportunities to grab super series titles, just so he can minimize risk of injury and have an opportunity to prepare for the big tournaments that count.

    Getting up to form and making these sacrifices are a huge part of a professional player's career that happens in the background. A lot of it isn't apparent to casual viewers, and it explains why a player's form is often talked about like it is an element of luck; it's not.
     
  20. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    It wasn’t a prediction , it was a wish. Chen Long’s style is so boring
     
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