Zhao Jian Hua's technical analysis of Asian Games MS Final

Discussion in 'Asian Games 2010 - Badminton' started by Bbn, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Sorry to bring out a stale topic or take up new space, someone posted in the Star today and mentioned

    about Zhao Jian Hua's Technical Analysis of this game.

    Now there must be already several analyses given but none linked to Zhao, so can someone please point to the link where the Zhao analysis was covered?

    Or maybe after watching with Zhao's running commentary summarise it?

    Now Zhao was a former world champion with a fitness problem,he (as far as i know) never managed to beat Morten Frost after 1986,yet he is revered.Frost won just about everything except the big one.

    Like Tang Xian Hu, when Zhao speaks people will listen.

    i won't say Zhao' analysis is perfect, but at least authoritative.Bet you he will say that the match was won or lost in the first match, and after that it is about using speed, projectiles and angles to inflict maximum damage, if I am wrong i confess beforehand.

    No who is better LD or LCW stuff please,or mental strength etc,.just the objective,technical issues on strokes, courtcraft etc.
     
  2. Jonc108

    Jonc108 Regular Member

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  3. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    TQ TQ ,

    But its just an after match post mortem, not a live running commentary.

    Never mentioned game plans.

    Oh well ,better than nothing, still talks about controlling the rhythm though.

    Thanks again.

    Readers,if you cant understand the article use the on-line translator and read between the lines or piece together the key words.
     
  4. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Did Zhao mention anything about Chen Jin's performance against LCW too?

    Thanks.
     
  5. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Rhythm must be the key, just like Eddy Choong's famous theory of running short bursts compared to long distances.

    Once a player sets the pace and gets the opponent to follow, the leading player can choose when to rest and when to accelerate,setting the pace and effectively controlling the match ,just like in cycling sprints and mid-distance events.

    if true it is surprising that after 50 years this old strategy still works.

    Roslin Hashim was the master of this strategy.

    If anybody is interested I can reproduce Eddy's article here again although I posted it here 8 years ago.
     
  6. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    The classic eg.must be the 1987 AE final where Frost turned ironman Icuk into jello.

    Recent ones may be those involving Gade and Simon Santoso.
     
  7. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Now I get it, what some of you were saying all along.

    LCW plays too defensively. By not playing positive,taking the initiatives etc, he allows opponents to dictate the pace

    and becomes a follower,not pace setter.by being defensive opponents dont score points off him from shots but slowly wear him down.

    TQ TQ
     
  8. cadlag

    cadlag Regular Member

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    It is the summary of his running commentary for CCTV5
     
  9. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    TQ.

    if all this talk about lack of confidence,defensive play or certain skills leading to the inability to force the pace of the game or making the opponent to

    play to your pace is true, isn't badminton going backwards to the 15 point system or even back to pre Zhao days.

    The 15 point system was supposed to make games shorter and focus on winning by great shot making and winning shots,

    not by long rallies to force errors or wear down opponents.

    As it is when the masters play, it is highly technical, takes more than an hour,difficult for TV viewers to understand the technicalities etc.

    in the end the 21 point rally system turns out to be the same as the 15 point system, its just that the scoring is more easily understood.

    the attraction is mainly in the star quality of the players.

    Just count the number of rallies it took to earn a point in games involving CJ, LD & LCW in Asiad.

    These type of games may just be interesting to people who know the intricacies of badminton not the wider audience.
     
  10. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    I invite you to look at the Malaysian GP Gold 2010 finals, LCW against WCH. LCW was literally using his racquet like a headmaster's cane at many stages! :eek: At the end of the game, my summary was, "he played with an uncluttered mind."

    All the time I watched that match (on Youtube, where else! :)) I kept thinking, "why can't he play like this against LD, CJ or some of the other top players? What holds him back against those players? Is it strategic, or tactical? If so, why?"
     
  11. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    I suspect it may not be lack of confidence, rather the scientific know-how on how to manage an athlete's body.

    It may be easier to dispose of an easy opponent with the minimum of effort, but if you use the same tactic against

    a tough opponent, that same tactic may just wear yourself down.

    You see in the Asiad, first LD sets the pace in the first, in the 2nd Lcw sets the pace, in the third ld dominates again.

    it's the same in semis, Cj sets the pace in 1st, Lcw sets the pace in 2nd and in the 3rd CJ is all washed up.

    The difference being that CJ's strokes compared to LD are not enough to wear down LCW, while LCW's are marginally

    lower than LD"s.

    All it takes is a player to be off form, eg accuracy at say 90 % or fitness at 80 % and the match is lost or goes either way.

    Its easy to ask LD or LCW to set the pace and lead their opponent but it may backfire if one wears one's body down in the process.

    LD has no confidence to play one speed and is prepared to wait over 3 sets.He hardly looked exhausted at the end. I believe its all about varying the pace and allowing the body to recover and sure takes a genius of a player to be able to plan it so intricately.

    It takes one to knows one's limit and also a coach to monitor the opponent's condition from a helicopter view.
     
    #11 Bbn, Nov 24, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  12. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    21 rally-point scoring system: Is it really better to Attack?

    .
    Directing BCers to read this thread "21 rally-point scoring system: Is it really better to Attack?";

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...stem-Is-it-really-better-to-Attack&highlight=
    .
     
  13. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Not to take anything away from LD's achievement in this AG, he was just brilliant...
    BUT...
    I've been rewinding the play of the second and third game, and I cannot get rid of an image that formed.
    LCW did not look anywhere close to his physical best. Especially his upper body muscle tone, which just seemed to be missing. It looked like muscle fatigue was already setting in, in the latter part of the second game. Again, I noticed the number of totally uncharacteristic mistakes he made in the third game (mid-court clears, time and again, and unbalanced lunges to reach net shots.) He was just a shadow of himself in the third game, and I lost count of the number of practise shots he fed LD with.

    (I believe it was later confirmed by Misbun that LCW was suffering from the flu or something, isn't that right? That would explain the pallor on his face in the third set.)

    The only conclusion I could arrive at was, he was physically unfit. Now, whether it was because of the previous day's encounter with the Vulcan (CJ :D) or whether it was just the culmulative effect of everything he has been going through, I don't know.

    I don't believe that LCW was attempting to pace himself. I don't believe LD was attempting to pace himself either. I think LCW knew at the beginning of the second set, "it's now or never." Simple as that. And LD knew his opponent was physically hampered, so he could afford the luxury of wearing him down by letting the game go to a third set. LD in my opinion, did nothing spectacular in the third. He just allowed the game to take its course for most of the third and let a visibly unfit LCW implode.

    Again, the better man won on the day. LD earned his victory, and as I had mentioned in an earlier post, LCW is a fighter to the end.
    A great match. Here's to witnessing many, many more between them!
     
  14. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    However, I strongly believe that LCW should change his attitude toward matchups with LD, and become as aggressive and arrogant as when he is playing almost anyone else. He has the range of strokes, he has the speed, power, recovery range, and stamina. He just needs that extra confidence to get the monkey off his back. And if you dont mind my saying, he needs his countrymen 100% behind him; just like LD's countrymen are more than 100% behind him! That does make a difference. :)
     
    #14 cobalt, Nov 24, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  15. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    The 21-point rally system was IMO primarily devised to allow for better television scheduling, which in turn would help to popularize the game and get more prime time slots. The 15-point system was a different ball game. Does anyone e.g. remember the 1997 WC finals?
     
  16. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    LCW's head-to-head winning statistics against LD is not good

    .
    I would say that LCW lacks confidence whenever he faces LD.

    LCW's head-to-head winning statistics against LD is not good. If LCW can catch up with this statistics, perhaps LCW could feel more confident whenever he faces LD.
    .
     
  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ah, that's a catch 22 situation...

    if he doesn't feel more confident against LD, then he's not gonna improve his h2h statistic :)
     
  18. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    The 21-point rally system was IMO primarily devised to allow for better television

    .
    Not only that; It helps out in many other things as well. For example;

    * Causing lesser injuries to players because games are shorter
    * Allowing players to continue playing to an older age
    * Keeping players concentrating on every rally/point
    * Keeping spectators on the edge of their seats every rally
    * Allowing tournament organisers' scheduling of matches much easier
    * Giving spectators at tournaments a rough idea how much is required to watch a full match
    * Allowing coaches to talk to players midway during a game
    * etc, etc, ......
    .
     
  19. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    When players face each other, they usually recall/remember their last encounter(s)

    .
    Very true. And also, when players face each other, they usually recall/remember their last encounter(s).
    .
     
  20. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    In LCW's case, if that is what really matters so much, then I would say he has got the wrong people as his managers, coaches, handlers etc. By the same yardstick, LD should have had to be fearing a defeat at the AG finals... ????

    Its natural for anyone to recall a previous encounter; but to ascribe more than passing importance to it, will not do justice to the present moment, and its possibilities; to the present condition/s and dynamics.

    Here's what I think: LCW has been allowed to fall into the trap of thinking almost fatalistically about any encounter with LD; i.e., "whatever will happen, will happen." You just get this feeling that a more proactive approach is missing from pre-match preparation, strategizing etc. As a result, LCW is more often playing a reactive game against LD. And that suits LD just fine! :D
     

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