[VIDEO] Singles Progression

DarkHiatus said:
's not necessarily hitting it BEHIND me to minimise movement, but it's the idea of not having the shuttle as far in front of you as you COULD.
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In my earlier post, I took an example when you were under no pressure and still didn't get behind enough. You had to move backward to take it above or very slightly in front of your head. if you had not hit it, it would have landed on your head or your right shoulder. Maybe even behind you (I don't think so, but cannot say for sure).
If you want to work on your overhead movement, get behind the shuttle. That's what we were talking about. I don't like that preparation either, but it doesn't matter as long as your not even able to move into the shot.
If you only care about a relaxed (looking) style, work on neutral shots and rhythm. You need a lot of patience (and stamina) to win matches with that style and you'll still need to take the chances you'll get... hopefully with a good overhead stroke. I don't think it's useful to work on too many things at the same time.
 
speCulatius said:
In my earlier post, I took an example when you were under no pressure and still didn't get behind enough. You had to move backward to take it above or very slightly in front of your head. if you had not hit it, it would have landed on your head or your right shoulder. Maybe even behind you (I don't think so, but cannot say for sure).
If you want to work on your overhead movement, get behind the shuttle. That's what we were talking about. I don't like that preparation either, but it doesn't matter as long as your not even able to move into the shot.
If you only care about a relaxed (looking) style, work on neutral shots and rhythm. You need a lot of patience (and stamina) to win matches with that style and you'll still need to take the chances you'll get... hopefully with a good overhead stroke. I don't think it's useful to work on too many things at the same time.
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I think @MSeeley once mentioned if you have the confidence to dig yourself out of the difficult positions (referring to late forehand), then you can be a lot more confident in staying within a rally and not force the point at the wrong time.

I barely have the confidence to maintain a rally, and my eagerness to finish off a rally with a smash whenever I'm presented with an opportunity where I'm behind the shuttle is not helping me (especially the notorious backwards momentum RTH smash).

If taking shots later to work on rhythm, neutral shots, racquet technique, and balance is what's needed to get me more patient, then I think that would be more beneficial that having me run around the court like a lunatic, because I clearly don't naturally play neutral shots whether I'm in a good position or a bad position at the moment.

I'm not looking at solely playing that patient style all the time, but I think it's important to be able to do it. Then there is at least the opportunity to move up a gear and increase the intensity of the rally should I want to, assuming I've learned how to play both styles.
 
DarkHiatus said:
SO many people say I am far too tense on court.
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Did you try to implement some yoga in your training program? Not only it is benefitial to gain physical flexibility, it does wonder on the mind too.

There are obviously different way of doing yoga. I mainly focus on gaining flexibility and working on injury prevention. I also end each yoga session in lotus position with a short meditation moment where I imagine myself playing, trying to focus on the points I’m currently working on, doing the perfect smash or rally etc. I try to visualize something positive and encouraging.

If I had to keep only one part of my off-court training program that would be yoga.
 
DarkHiatus said:
if you have the confidence to dig yourself out of the difficult positions (referring to late forehand), then you can be a lot more confident in staying within a rally and not force the point at the wrong time.
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Totally true, you can extend that to other situations. Question: Where do you want to get the confidence from when you're not able to play controlled clears? I don't see you playing clears, controlling the height and speed when not being under pressure. When being late, it doesn't mean you play totally differently, you still need to get behind the shuttle and use the kinetic chain. The compromise is to take the shuttle lower and more out to the side, but still in front of you while moving forward. A good overhead would be a good foundation.

And again, from your backhand corner, (even the RTH shots,) your movement already is better, because your hip is moving in the right direction and you're slightly leading with your elbow. This means you can do it!
 
DarkHiatus said:
I think @MSeeley once mentioned if you have the confidence to dig yourself out of the difficult positions (referring to late forehand), then you can be a lot more confident in staying within a rally and not force the point at the wrong time.

I barely have the confidence to maintain a rally, and my eagerness to finish off a rally with a smash whenever I'm presented with an opportunity where I'm behind the shuttle is not helping me (especially the notorious backwards momentum RTH smash).

If taking shots later to work on rhythm, neutral shots, racquet technique, and balance is what's needed to get me more patient, then I think that would be more beneficial that having me run around the court like a lunatic, because I clearly don't naturally play neutral shots whether I'm in a good position or a bad position at the moment.

I'm not looking at solely playing that patient style all the time, but I think it's important to be able to do it. Then there is at least the opportunity to move up a gear and increase the intensity of the rally should I want to, assuming I've learned how to play both styles.
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Too many cooks in this thread! Lol.

Quick comment: your singles was painful to watch... except that bit towards the end referenced previously. During those points, your shots had good purpose to them and I thought you played really well! I haven't seen that from you before - well done mate. Try to replicate that wherever possible. It won't be easy, but it should come in time with practice. I agree with the recommendation that you try to visualise yourself playing in the best possible way! Remember how it felt, where your focus lay, what you were thinking to yourself etc.

We all understand the points being discussed here. Is it a good idea to be behind the shuttle? Yes - especially when learning an overhead stroke, it really really helps as it lets you worry about a few less things and it really enables the correct technique. Few things are as beneficial as learning to hit over the top of the shuttle, and that's not possible unless you are behind it. And you know as much as we do that doing things in training is more important for now than doing it in games - games will usually lag behind training unless you really get proficient at integrating the two.

Learning to hit with good technique from the deep corners is essential - more essential than learning to hit well from good positions at this stage for you. Having said that, I haven't yet seen you hit a stroke with good technique from either the late forehand or late backhand corners. I am sure there are examples but I can't bring them to mind - happy to stand corrected. From what i've seen previously, you have a tendency to just get your posture and body positioning wrong as you try to hit the shuttle when it's late. It's a shame the "Essentials of Badminton Technique" is no longer available to purchase - that DVD explained everything in such excellent detail!

I agree about the preparation too by the way - if you could prepare to hit the shuttle in a more elegant way, your shots would end up better. Again, something to work on in training and hope that it slowly trickles into your game.

Question for you: what is it you're currently trying to achieve in training? What's your primary focus above all else? Feel free to be as specific or as vague as you like! It's all very well and good that we give you suggestions - I just want to make sure your current plan is sensible. You are in charge of your development, and we can all disagree with you as much as we want!
 
Oh and my sympathies for the slow progress - I know how frustrating that is first hand. Just be careful - I've never yet encountered a situation where slow progress wasn't the result of inappropriate prioritisation i.e. there is something that you could do, that you would do, that you are not currently doing, that would be more beneficial to your goal than everything you are currently doing. I am sure you are analysing lots of things, just a caution to pay careful attention to your priorities if you are not already!
 
Just a note, some people have better innate self awareness and priprioceptive feedback of their movements and motor skills than others. And some struggle with it more such that improvement can be very slow.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
 
visor said:
Just a note, some people have better innate self awareness and priprioceptive feedback of their movements and motor skills than others. And some struggle with it more such that improvement can be very slow.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
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I was doing shadows of overhead technique yesterday with my coach. She told me to move my elbow upwards more.

Then do it again with more emphasis on the elbow.

Now even more elbow emphasis.

Then do it again in slow motion.

Now move the elbow before the shoulder.

That's not your elbow, that's your shoulder.

And sure enough, it was. Badminton's equivalent of having two left feet :( I actually seem to struggle being able to move my elbow independent of my wrist or my shoulder. My brain seems to group the movement of it either as one of the other two.

Apparently it can happen if someone has injured their shoulder from hyperextension on the joint before, but I have no such history...I am just slow :/
 
DarkHiatus said:
I actually seem to struggle being able to move my elbow independent of my wrist or my shoulder. My brain seems to group the movement of it either as one of the other two.
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Ha! My coach and I realized this about my fingers once when we were talking about grip. My ring and pinky finger cannot move independent of each other. What one does, the other does as well. We also realized that my thumb is less flexible than his thumb and I can't get my thumb in the same position he does which means I also can't get as much power. I started asking around and noticed there is a big difference between how people can move their thumbs, like double jointed I guess? Or I just have stiffer fingers or something? So it is interesting when our bodies can't/won't do the same thing other people's do naturally. We need to find workarounds or alternatives I guess. But that's the benefit of having your own coach and not just watching videos online, at least you know the exact problem.

Anyway, you know how I feel about people being harsh to you, so I won't say it again, lol. But just remember that slow progress is still progress and you need to work on improving yourself and comparing yourself to yourself from before. It doesn't matter if it takes you longer than other people, it doesn't matter if other people feel bad for you that you are improving slower than they want. So keep it up and don't feel bad or demoralize yourself! Just acknowledge this weird shoulder/elbow movement quirk it and figure out how to work with it.
 
Last tournament of the season as a tier 4 tournament, 1 level below the ones I normally play.

This video is of the Round of 16 knockout that I lost 13-21, 21-23. Became impatient in the last game whilst up 21-20 which I need to work on.

The group stages were significantly easier, though I can include those videos if people are interested; the major note I made was that my opponents played like I do when coming up against stronger opponents - rather than focus on consistency and quality, the temptation is to shift to attacking play to try and end rallies sooner.

In terms of the training up to this, my coach and I have been working on:
  1. getting me into a more relaxed position with slightly more time than I could have (not taking it very early by jumping for example) and,
  2. trying to improve overhead action and making the preparation look the same.
I played more drop shots this match, and I credit that to the training as I'm more confident about playing the drops if my opponent isn't going to leap on them by reading my telegraphed drop shot motion. Unfortunately, I still have the habit of playing a smash when I do get to a shuttle earlier when a clear/drop/anything else would be more effective.

 
This is a better video to analyse your play.

You run around less like a headless chicken controlling the shuttle better. I think the second game you tried a few trademark smashes from that round the head position. It’s pretty clear to see the shuttle doesn’t cross the net as a smash but more like a high altitude drive.

You still have to work on that deep serve from the even court. You lost four or five points on it. I still think your foot position is suboptimal. From your original position on that side on the serve, you need to rotate your starting position just a few degrees anti-clockwise by moving your right leg (which is behind) to the right slightly.

Your cross court netshots are really high leaving the opponent lots of time to get into position. I guess working on that will be another day.

I have a feeling your base stance may now be a bit too wide. You can’t push off with your left leg to get to the front easily on dropshots - that because the left leg starts in an already very extended position.
 
Cheung said:
This is a better video to analyse your play.

You run around less like a headless chicken controlling the shuttle better. I think the second game you tried a few trademark smashes from that round the head position. It’s pretty clear to see the shuttle doesn’t cross the net as a smash but more like a high altitude drive.

You still have to work on that deep serve from the even court. You lost four or five points on it. I still think your foot position is suboptimal. From your original position on that side on the serve, you need to rotate your starting position just a few degrees anti-clockwise by moving your right leg (which is behind) to the right slightly.

Your cross court netshots are really high leaving the opponent lots of time to get into position. I guess working on that will be another day.

I have a feeling your base stance may now be a bit too wide. You can’t push off with your left leg to get to the front easily on dropshots - that because the left leg starts in an already very extended position.
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It still hasn't really sunk in the idea of being able to win points without necessarily smashing or killing. In my badminton brain, I need to accept that a stroke that causes my opponent to make a mistake is a perfectly valid way of winning a point, and that I don't need to end every rally with a smash/kill winner. Previously, I have played the "not allowed to smash until I force my opponent to make a weak reply" as a practice - is it reasonable to try and play singles where I am aiming to win by my opponent making mistakes only? i.e. don't smash/kill unless it's a 99% chance of finishing the rally? Not even just for practice, but as a way of playing singles at a strategy.

The "smashes" (high altitude drives) is quite obvious in this perspective, and I also had the opposite view when playing in the group stages; when an opponent smashes in a strong position with a medium smash, my defence is tested, but if my opponent is in a weak position with a medium smash, there is very little threat because there's no need to actively seek a counterattack (a simple block is enough to gain an advantage).

I was disappointed with my high serves as i've been practising them. I was debating switching to short serves, but decided to see it through and try to adjust. I'll try and bring my right foot out a bit and see if that helps with consistency.

Net shots in general I thought were high - I have gone from playing net shots too flat/deep to playing them too high/looped, and need to figure out a balance. I suppose I am capable of playing either, but I need to understand the tactical uses in practice. The theory makes sense in my head, but my badminton brain doesn't work and I struggle to play sensible trajectories.

Interesting point about drop shot retrieval...i thought this was to do with racquet carriage, preparation, and finger power timing on the shot itself. There are a number of instances my lifts go short, especially after returning from the rearcourt, but also on returning drop shots off serve where i'm in a central base position. I've also had one coach mention they'd prefer my base slightly further forward, and another coach say it could be further backwards since i'm fast enough to retrieve the drops if my footwork and stroke timing is good. I'm still keen to focus on my rear movements/overheads, but appreciate that the forecourt is equally important in maintaining a singles rally - i can't just net shot everything, and I need to have a reliable, consistent lift, ideally with several options on approaching the forecourt.
 
DarkHiatus said:
It still hasn't really sunk in the idea of being able to win points without necessarily smashing or killing. In my badminton brain, I need to accept that a stroke that causes my opponent to make a mistake is a perfectly valid way of winning a point, and that I don't need to end every rally with a smash/kill winner. Previously, I have played the "not allowed to smash until I force my opponent to make a weak reply" as a practice - is it reasonable to try and play singles where I am aiming to win by my opponent making mistakes only? i.e. don't smash/kill unless it's a 99% chance of finishing the rally? Not even just for practice, but as a way of playing singles at a strategy.
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You could try to watch more matches of defensive/tactical players such as Son Wan Ho to integrate this notion. Try to note on a paper how many smashes/points a player like SWH does in one set and how many points does he actually score from his opponent's faults. It's surprising and help put things in perspective in term of singles play and may be it could help you reconsider your mindset regarding scoring points.

PS: How did you adapt to your new Londoner lifestyle? Is it now easier for you to play singles at your new club and/or with your new coaches?
 
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DarkHiatus said:
is it reasonable to try and play singles where I am aiming to win by my opponent making mistakes only? i.e. don't smash/kill unless it's a 99% chance of finishing the rally? Not even just for practice, but as a way of playing singles at a strategy.
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Watching Tai Tzu Ying, she wins plenty of points without smashing.

At present, you work on consistent play with improved technique. Like netshots, deep forehand, clearer footwork patterns - still have some way to go on improving these areas. Stepping down to this level means you get to play longer rallies under match conditions. This will be good preparation for when you move up again in level of tournaments.

. Next, you work on why you hit to certain corners of the court and no, it's not to bore the opponent into making a mistake.

After that, work out how to change the pace of the rally
 
DarkHiatus said:
It still hasn't really sunk in the idea of being able to win points without necessarily smashing or killing. In my badminton brain, I need to accept that a stroke that causes my opponent to make a mistake is a perfectly valid way of winning a point, and that I don't need to end every rally with a smash/kill winner. Previously, I have played the "not allowed to smash until I force my opponent to make a weak reply" as a practice - is it reasonable to try and play singles where I am aiming to win by my opponent making mistakes only? i.e. don't smash/kill unless it's a 99% chance of finishing the rally? Not even just for practice, but as a way of playing singles at a strategy.
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This is absolutely viable and is a major part of how control players play singles. However, you don't necessarily need to avoid smashing unless it's 99% sure to end the rally. What you need to do is only smash when you're balanced, and that you're 90% sure your smash will not cause you to be on the defensive on the next shot, which means the most your opponent should be able to do from your smash is a poor block or a weak lift. At some point you'll find that your opponent is very good defensively even when you're balanced and smashing with a purpose, which is the point you need to improve your strength and technique.
 
Cheung said:
Watching Tai Tzu Ying, she wins plenty of points without smashing.
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You should watch games between Tai Tzu Ying and Akane Yamaguchi. Great matches and great players.


Attack-Clears and Drops are a real easy weapon to bring the opponent out of balance and at some point you can finish with a (weak) Smash. 80% are fitness, footwork and strategy. The Smash in singles are only 1%! In mixed and doubles it looks completely different.
 
Summer doesn't have too many tournaments, but I've been doing plenty of training, trying to work on variation and smarter play. Here's me training the forehand crosscourt drops - the focus on this drill was to get my elbow up, and to get in a position to play any shot (clear/drop/smash).

My coach really wanted me to get my elbow up and stop dropping it, to bring my racquet up closer to my chest rather than swing it outwards, and land with my feet wider apart to aid recovery.

Any other ideas? I think the general shape looks okay, and the recovery leaves a bit to be desired!

 
DarkHiatus said:
Summer doesn't have too many tournaments, but I've been doing plenty of training, trying to work on variation and smarter play. Here's me training the forehand crosscourt drops - the focus on this drill was to get my elbow up, and to get in a position to play any shot (clear/drop/smash).

My coach really wanted me to get my elbow up and stop dropping it, to bring my racquet up closer to my chest rather than swing it outwards, and land with my feet wider apart to aid recovery.

Any other ideas? I think the general shape looks okay, and the recovery leaves a bit to be desired!
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A bit difficult from this angle to tell about the bringing the up the racquet closer to the chest - can't really tell

I like the landing

Sometimes with the follow through, the racquet ends up downwards towards the floor. Not sure if this causes any inconsistencies.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, your left arm actually doesn't reach up very high in preparation to target the shuttle - if you are feeling a bit inconsistent, it may be something to note.

Recovery footwork pattern - will definitely restrict you if you have further distance to cover.

Rhythm - Nice. Good work. Definite thumbs up.

Posture - improved, especially after the stroke. Can see your centre of gravity is going forward

Relaxation - much much better


Good improvement!

If the rest of your basic strokes are improving like this, then that's great!!
 
Cheung said:
A bit difficult from this angle to tell about the bringing the up the racquet closer to the chest - can't really tell

I like the landing

Sometimes with the follow through, the racquet ends up downwards towards the floor. Not sure if this causes any inconsistencies.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, your left arm actually doesn't reach up very high in preparation to target the shuttle - if you are feeling a bit inconsistent, it may be something to note.

Recovery footwork pattern - will definitely restrict you if you have further distance to cover.

Rhythm - Nice. Good work. Definite thumbs up.

Posture - improved, especially after the stroke. Can see your centre of gravity is going forward

Relaxation - much much better


Good improvement!

If the rest of your basic strokes are improving like this, then that's great!!
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The coaching I've had recently is a much more focused on the idea of controlling my half of the court effectively and being able to play varied neutral shots, in order to wait for my opponent to make a mistake.

The shift is because the coaches feel I have good raw speed, but over-anticipation means I can get very tense and overcommit to wrong movements, becoming a negative loop in matches. By focusing on playing out a rally, hopefully I'll feel less need to 'force' a mistake from my opponent by attacking too much. The half smashes and sliced drops seem to really help in this - I previously saw half smashes only as an attacking variation to a full smash, but it can be a really effective neutral shot.

The left arm and wider stance I'll try and use more to keep my recovery position more central. I'm supposed to be avoiding doing a full scissor here as the assumption is I am being pressured by a flat lift, and I shouldn't be trying to hit winners off flat lifts as part of rallying play.

I'm keen to see how this translates into match play next season which is coming up soon!
 
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