Unconventional forehand clear techniques

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by raymondraymond1, Mar 13, 2024.

  1. wannaplay

    wannaplay Regular Member

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    word of caution, i am only showing the clip to demonstrate that her strokes do not lack pronation. for context, she seems to be slightly behind in that moment so she ends up reaching for the shuttle - not the best moment to emulate if you are learning the basic stroke.

    re: pronation, simple search on youtube alone, even better if you speak and can type in multiple languages, turn up a ton of material. pbsi has a series, bwf with badminton england used to have a series, chen jin has a series, kenichi tago (tagoken), thomas laybourne from badminton family, more recently badminton insight channel. here is one fom josechannel (ホセチャンネル), upper body isolated, turn on caption for english subtitles:
     
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  2. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    I just looked up on a tennis forum about roddick's serve, and some posts mentioned that his swing was shorter which might mean it could use the shoulder more.. I can imagine tennis players practising loads of serves in training, and then they could end up doing the training error of too much. (or too much when combined with the playing they're doing). What some say in weightlifting or bodybuilding communities (where they listen to the body more than badminton players do!), is that it's often more an issue of underrecovery than overtraining. If one were to list the issues, I think one could say underrecovery, overtraining.. before the technique itself being an issue. Hyperfocussing on technique with one feed and another feed and another etc.. (or self feed with the tennis serve) can be a recipe for muscular overuse injury..

    With more listening to the body then injury would be avoided so it's not so much the technique in itself..

    And often when players work to change their technique then they might do all sorts of things that are a bit problematic, besides that good technique puts wear on the body too.. What technique/movement(s) is being done is a factor, but for injruy to occur or at least long term injury, it's got to be those other basic factors of not taking time off sufficiently early, focussing on other movements and variety, etc
     
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  3. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    It's pretty easy and natural if you try it in the scenario where you chasse to the FH corner so are a bit sideways on and you have FH grip. You almost can't not do it. That's where the racket points where you are hitting it..

    It's potentially a bit less natural and intuitive to do forearm pronation when the shuttle is in front of you and often people intuitively go a bit panhandle or panhandle and have to practise to use forearm pronation and forehand grip there.

    I learnt a full swing before any short swing , that's the traditional way, and also intuitive.

    But my short swing was good technique very quick and helped correct my big swing. It's so much easier to understand the technique when there is less going on.

    Also even if you think you are doing "just forearm pronation" there is still probably upper arm rotation going on. The concept of a kinetic chain isn't start A finish A, start B, finish B, all in isolated movements. You have overlap , so things happen at the same time.

    It is possible(but not recommended), to hit full court clear with panhandle and good "body rotation", and no proper forearm pronation going on, many players do at beginner level, so you can't really blame lack of forearm pronation...but a proper grip, forehand grip will help with power.. and don't use good or bad "body rotation" as an excuse to not learn how to include forearm pronation!
     
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  4. raymondraymond1

    raymondraymond1 New Member

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    TQ very much, this Japan video is good, he focused on just the arm movement and slight turn back of upper body without hip movement, a very good starting point to pick up pronation, no wonder my shoulder join is always painful after the game, my pronation is not correct, use lots of energy to swing the shoulder to add power
     
  5. Jay Ng

    Jay Ng Regular Member

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    A lot of people overlook the importance of the last 3 fingers and wrist in generating power effortlessly. It’s hard to quantify percentages but only using forearm pronation for generating power will only give you part of the energy needed for a powerful shot.

    Sit down and rest your elbow on a table whilst holding your racket in the forehand grip. The frame and not string bed will be facing forward. A bit like holding a small ready to throw at a target.

    Without moving any other part of your arm, relax the last 3 fingers and allow the racket head to pivot backward until you have the gap in your palm. Squeeze the 3 fingers quickly to close the gap and tighten grip at the point of when gap is fully closed. The sound created allows you to hear racket head speed. Repeat again but allow the wrist to relax so that it cocks back, you’ll notice that the racket head will be further back now. Repeat process of closing the gap in your palm ending with the tight grip and allow the wrist to move freely back to its original neutral position. You should hear a noticeable increase in the sound of the racket head speed.

    Obviously this exercise alone isn’t going to allow you to hit a shuttle, unless you’re so accurate that you can hit the shuttle with the frame it’s purpose is to show that space in the palm and relaxed wrist can be used to create some racket head speed.

    Lastly, hold the racket in its original starting position again and raise the elbow off the table. Relax fingers and wrist as in previous step and then repeat process of closing gap and tightening grip but add forearm pronation. If done correctly, you’ll notice the string bed will be facing forward at the point of tightening grip.

    You’ll notice that the sound of the racket head moving has further increased and your shoulder has done nothing apart from pivoting upwards to move the elbow off the table.

    As you know already, there’s a lot more to it for a fully complete effortless clear as you need to add footwork, overhead racket preparation and then the rest of the kinetic chain. This shows the one particular stroke is a sum of many parts, just take your time to improve individual parts and it’ll all come together eventually.
     
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  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Exactly this.

    With these last three finger technique, it’s easier to produce the sudden acceleration of the racquet head just before hitting the shuttle. The energy is concentrated in the head of the racquet and then into the shuttle on impact.
     
  7. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Hitting baseline to baseline isn't hard at all. I can do it without body turn at all and just arm snap. Perhaps OP has been using slow shuttles where it would indeed be quite hard and I do need the body turn to generate baseline to baseline shots when playing with such shuttles.
     
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  8. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    If the lower arm rotates then it's supinating if rotating one way, and pronating if it's rotating the other way. Both happen in a swing. You could look up what forearm(lower arm) pronation is anatomically and then consider how it applies in a swing.

    Some have mentioned use of fingers. That's worth doing. When you do that you might find you are naturally also doing other things too, like rotation of upper and lower arm.
     
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  9. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    This must be the understatement of the century.
     
  10. wannaplay

    wannaplay Regular Member

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    i will have to agree with ssnt. i can even do that with completely wrong grip like a panhandle.
     
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  11. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    We must be in different worlds.

    When I go to the badminton courts at a random time, I see plenty of people on court who can’t do it. More than who can do it.
     
  12. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Maybe I should add (among intermediate players) disclaimer. :p
     
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  13. raymondraymond1

    raymondraymond1 New Member

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    ================
    Thank you Jay Ng for the insight of pronation, finger grip and snap to create power swing.
    This is what I have done to create the swing,

    1) I cock my wrist to have it at least 90 degrees to the forearm, while pull back my racket elbow lower than shoulder
    2) allow the racket to rest on the last 3 fingers, create as much space as possible between the racket and the palm, using the lowest part of the index finger bone as pivot,
    3) then project a sudden burst by moving elbow upward and forward without applying force, at the same time, snap the last 3 fingers on the racket using the lowest part of the index finger as pivot.
    4) I heard a power swing voice right through to hitting the shuttle,
    the past 2 days of practice,
    the shuttle did reach further with ease.

    Thank you for the advice.

    I have one question,
    I cock my wrist such that the racket is at least 90 degrees to the forearm,
    but when I hit the shuttle, I realized that the cocking angle no longer maintained at 90 degrees, it was reduced to about 20 degrees in order to hit the shuttle.
    Just wonder I did it correctly?
    I guess the purpose of cocking is to allow the racket to have a large angle of swing as possible, preferably 180 degrees.

    Thanks.
     
  14. raymondraymond1

    raymondraymond1 New Member

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    Hi, I missed out one more question,
    did the snaping of last 3 fingers occur the same time while my forearm starts to pronate through the 180 degrees swing or just before hitting the shuttle?
    Thanks
     

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