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can an umpire call a let?

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by pcll99, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    i know if an umpire is convinced beyond reasonable doubt that a line judge got it wrong, he can overrule the line judge. But what if he thinks it is very close (ie, maybe it's in or maybe it's out), can he call a let?
     
  2. phili

    phili Regular Member

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    I don't think so. Maybe if the line judge's vision was blocked and so was the umpire's but not if the line judge made a call.
     
  3. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    if the umpire clearly thinks the linejudge is wrong, then he will overrule it.
    if the umpire clearly thinks the linejudge is correct, then he won't need to say a thing.

    so what circumstances would the umpire turn it into a let? maybe when the umpire thinks the linejudge is an idiot and not competent or not in the right state to make a call? maybe the linejudge fell over or fall asleep?

    hm... ;)
     
  4. a|extan

    a|extan Regular Member

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    i have not seen a let b4 in badminton competition.....
    any video to show one?
     
  5. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    what about a line judge? can he himself call a let if he is not sure?
     
  6. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    yes. linejudges can call unsighted. the gesture is covering ones eyes.

    example situations includes..

    - view of shuttle blocked by player
    - momentarily fell asleep
    - too engrossed in watching the rally and forgotten about having to call a line
    - etc. ;)
     
  7. a|extan

    a|extan Regular Member

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    such unsight r rare..

    likely the empire will have to come in to make the final calls

    badminton is still not like tennis... when one player can make a limited no of challenger or video review

    this can oso let the players catch their breath...a little little while

    i am supportive of this
     
  8. Cloud7z

    Cloud7z Regular Member

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    That's why being the line judge down the middle would be the best; concentrate on the service then after that, you can just enjoy the game :D
     
  9. krysser

    krysser Regular Member

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    No the line judge can't call a let, he can "call" an unsightet as Kwun writes, but if he does that the umpire will make a decision, often the decision is to call a let, but he has all three possiblitys.
     
  10. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Calling a let on a close line call would show that you are not trusting enough of your line judge to agree with their judgement. And in your case, lots of lets will be played on close line shots then.
     
  11. krysser

    krysser Regular Member

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    No the umpire will only call it if the line judge calls an unsightet (as I wrote) there isn't that many, but those that are there is more likely to be on close calls, so as an umpire it can be very hard to make a call on a close one on the far side of the court.
    It has nothing to do with not trusting your line judge, he/she has allready told you that they have no clue if it was in or out
    As I wrote the umpire has all 3 possibilitys so if it is happening just under your chair there is nothing wrong in calling it as you see it.
     
  12. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    In International Challenge tournaments from what I've seen, the umpire will only over rule a line call of it is blatantly wrong. If it is slightly wrong (still slightly noticible though) then it will stand, cause once the umpire overules that line, then any shuttle that goes near it, most players at that level, will infact try and influence the line judge and umpire.

    Would not call a let though, only an overule if there is a clear mistake.
     
  13. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Sure. A let is called by the umpire when the receiver indicates he's not ready when the server serves... many times a match when Ko SungHyun is serving. ;)
     
  14. krysser

    krysser Regular Member

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    Well the thing is that the line judge haven't made a real call, he/she have made an unsightet call telling you that they can't make a call, therefor you as umpire have to make the call for them, so you are not overruleing anything, they haven't made a call for you to overule, if they made a real call (in/out) the umpire can only accept it or overrule it if it is a clearly wrong call.
     
  15. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Instant video replay is already broadcasted, if BWF uses that to assist, the umpire's job would be so much easier. ;)
     
  16. johnv

    johnv Regular Member

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    I guess umpires try to avoid calling lets to keep the game going smoothly. Calling a let introduces uncertainty into the situation and one side will still feel put out that their shot wasn't called good. It encourages subsequent close calls to also be questioned and interruptions may start to creep in.

    Players know sometimes calls go against their own judgements, but they have to get over it and not let that distract from their game. Umpiring consistency should be a matter for the organisers not the players.
     
  17. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    But what if after having saw it (ie, he wasn't blocked), he's not sure.. what then?

    "The birdie was too fast, I couldn't say".... "It was 3 meters away, i couldn't see it well"... "It was simply too close to call."

    At least one of the above happens in almost every single match.
     
    #17 pcll99, Mar 14, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  18. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Unsighted ruling still occurs. Umpire makes decision or play a let.
     
  19. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    line judge not there to enjoy the game, but to make the correct line call

    In actual practice, there are two line judging positions (of the ten) that are the most difficult ones, precisely for the reason provided here. One of them is the centre service line, especially in doubles, and the other is the short service line.

    Why?

    Because the call is made immediately after the service, and then nothing to call for the rest of the rally. There is therefore adequate opportunity to "just enjoy the game," so that when the time comes to make the call, the chances of the focus necessary will not be there.

    When a line judge goes on the court with a mindset to enjoy the rest of the game after concentrating on the service, this line judge will not be able to call upon his/her focus when needed.

    Please know, when in doubles, the shuttle lands in the wrong service court, and is near the short service line, the line judge will be required to see this through what, 2 or 3 (or 4) legs that were straddling the centre line. And BCers probably also know that the receiver will generally scoop the shuttle up immediately as it touches the court. What will we have then? The briefest of times to see actually where the shuttle dropped.

    Now forum posters who also watch plenty of live action and videos, will recall just how many times in a match there are service line calls that were made. From an average in a MD match, perhaps once or twice. And how long does such a match last? Anywhere from 25' to 75'. When a line judge has enjoyed the game for most of the duration of the match, and then is suddenly called upon to make the correct call, well, see how difficult it would be.

    Focus comes with practice, and plenty of experience. Try this in club matches, measure the outcomes. A line judge's primary responsibility is to make the correct call for the line which that position is assigned to.
     
    #19 2wheels04, Jul 7, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  20. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    thinking not allowed

    Just to be clear, thinking suggests there is a situation to be analysed. In fact, in actual practice, there are clear decisions to be made based solely on factual observation.

    Either the umpire has clearly seen the shuttle land outside (or inside) the court and there is correction to be made of the line judge's signal. The vocabulary used will then be "Correction. Out," or "Correction. In," as the situation may be. Then call the score.

    When the umpire has no need to make any correction, s/he will still need to say something - the score.

    As hinted in other posts, the circumstance when an umpire calls a let on a line judge call, is only when the line judge has made an "Unsighted" call, and the umpire also was unsighted, or did not clearly see where the shuttle landed. This is where s/he would call a let.

    Umpire is not a psycho-analyst, and I reckon the poster here is just being flippant about the line judge's character or waking-status.

    However, in the case of the line judge falling over, there could be more serious reasons. I know of no instances [yet] of a line judge experiencing cardiac arrest, stroke, or some other medical complications, while on court, although I know of just one instance when one line judge who was scheduled for the next match became medically incapacitated.
     

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