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Carolina Marin: Spain

Discussion in 'Professional Players' started by scuInd78, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I guess the wider implication is that it sends a message to future opponents in matches that she can have meltdowns. And that the image of the big game player does have weaknesses.
     
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    That's why I'm curious to find out if she had developed this screaming and showing fist behaviour to compensate for her weaker mental state. I'm wondering if she did this as a junior player.
     
  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I think it is a deliberate tactic carefully devised by her coach. ;)

    It is there as part of the game plan. She probably did have something like that before but not as sophisticated.

    There was another match where she had an opponent fight back and that was the 2015 HK Open final against Nozomi. Nozomi was on a run of points catching up. To break that run, Carolina deliberately didn't listen to the umpire to stop delay tactics and got herself yellow carded. Deliberately getting yourself a yellow card is a novel but legitimate way of delaying the game. The ploy worked.

    It sort of amused me that everybody was going on about Carolina's bad manners and deserved a card at that instant. I was by the courtside and she could clearly hear the umpire for the warning before the card. That's when I knew it was a pre-thought out deliberate tactic.
     
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  4. volcom

    volcom Regular Member

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    Very smart way of abusing the system
     
  5. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    It's not abuse, as she still got warned/penalized with a yellow card. And the mental part of the game will separate the winner from the loser when two competitors are equal in all other attributes.

    In that HK open 2015 example that @Cheung gave, one could say that Nozomi wasn't mentally strong enough to withstand the delay tactics.
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Surprised and not expecting that sort of thing.

    You know Japanese are super polite. Nozomi was much more experienced after that.
     
  7. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Yeah, and I've noticed other usually polite WS players like TTY and especially RI, only when they play against Marin, they are starting to scream and raise their fists in response.

    Apparently when RI was asked in an interview why, she said that because the OG gold medalist does it, so she should too. But at least it doesn't sound as unnerving when she does it...
     
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  8. nilesh123

    nilesh123 Regular Member

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    RI has kinda started screaming on regular basis. In the finale she often screamed when TTY made a smash UE or simply landed the shuttle on the net while trying a lil extra.
    In fact many girls these days are shouting. SN always do her occasional "Come on(s)" PVS when in a tight situation shouts, in fact once she gave CM a run for her money in the vocal battle. WSX used to do it, SJH pumps her fists.
    Plus, surprisingly after all these complainings I no more find CM's behavior amusing let alone disturbing.
     
  9. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Personally, I've always considered Marin's screams and shouts as more of an outward show, a vocal expression of mental toughness, not necessarily a true reflection of her inner state.

    At the Rio Olympics, I sensed that she wavered somewhat in two of her matches, the one with Sung Ji Hyun who nearly closed the considerable gap in G2, and the other one with Sindhu dropping G1 when leading most of the way, iirc.

    In fact, Wang Shixian once commented that she's not too bothered by Marin's antics saying the more she screams/yells/shouts/fist-pumps, the more she revealed her lack of self-confidence, that it appeared affected or sort of fake , that she felt things aren't going too well for her, that's why.

    To sum up, Carolina Marin's mental strength is nowhere compared with Lin Dan's. Hers is more akin to bluster or bravado, his is like the strong and silent type, the real deal. The only time Lin Dan let it all out is at the end of the match or at most after winning a tough set but not during it.

    Still, I've to admit she is mentally the strongest among the current crop of WS, a big match player. Perhaps that's the reason some others like IR, TTY, PVS (sometimes) (who else ?) are beginning to imitate her, esp when playing Marin. Possibly, Marin's screaming like laughter is contagious to certain players.
     
  10. lisa bitch hannigan

    lisa bitch hannigan Regular Member

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    as she said in the interview last page, it's not a deliberate tactic
     
  11. lisa bitch hannigan

    lisa bitch hannigan Regular Member

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  12. MeisterTim

    MeisterTim Regular Member

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    I'd like to remind to everyone that Marin is coming from a country where the badminton scene is a desert. I think a lot of people grossly underestimate how tough you have to be to play against top dogs from asian countrys that have won almost everything the past decades (and not suffer from an inferiority complex because you come from a country that has never achieved anything).

    IMO nothing from LD equals what CM did at her first WC final mentally-wise. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I think LD did not have to be particularly strong mentally in his finals because he was so much better than his competition. And then for the close finals he competed in hereafter, he had the big advantage of having already won everything.
     
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  13. lisa bitch hannigan

    lisa bitch hannigan Regular Member

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    well, marin has her own advantage when she's coming from spain. Wc14 final, marin is the underdog, no one would blame her if she losed. Li beat her fellow countrygirl in OG12 final but she lost when she's the last hope for china ws
     
  14. MeisterTim

    MeisterTim Regular Member

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    I don't agree with that. Li is coming from a country with much better infrastructure and a long history of world champions, she already won OG, it's ridiculous to think she's not in a very advantageous position mentally speaking because of some national pressure. Playing freely is exactly what being mentally tough is!
     
  15. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I agree with you, in that 2014 WC, Marin was the underdog, an advantageous position to be in, and aided by LXR's inexplicable meltdown which in previous and subsequent years also proved a vulnerability for her. LXR's fragility at the WCs is well-known .

    In short, Marin's mental strength/toughness can't compare with Lin Dan's as recent months have demonstrated when Marin showed her vulnerability eg against Intanon Ratchanok, P V Sindhu, Tai TY.
     
  16. lisa bitch hannigan

    lisa bitch hannigan Regular Member

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    I don't compare them, they're different. Ld is almost always the best player, just look at his h2h against anyone. He still has a bad day like malaysia 2006 leading 20-13 and still lost. But i'm glad he lost like that in a ss final, not wc/og
    you mentioned tai but she's in form. She won because she played better, not much because of mental toughness
     
  17. SolsticeOfLight

    SolsticeOfLight Regular Member

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    Tai also rested last week. Marin looked tired in the 3rd game.
     
  18. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Correct, I wasn't implying the latter three are mentally stronger than Marin whom, I believe, is still better than them in that respect.
     
  19. badmintonbro

    badmintonbro Regular Member

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    Is Carolina still using the Z-speed? Just watched her match and maybe the quality of the stream was poor but it didn't look like it.
     
  20. Shuttlingus

    Shuttlingus Regular Member

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    Moved to Z-Strike...
     

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